Re: [Chrysler300] Fw: Information on Buying Gas.

From: "Michael Reed" <mrreed@xxxxxxxxx>

Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:52:04 -0500

Temperature compensating pumps (TCP) adjust the amount of fuel delivered by adjusting the amount of fuel delivered according to the current temperature of the fuel adjusted to a fixed air temperatue (77° F in Canada). The TCP delivers less than one gallon if the temperature of the fuel is below 77° F. When (and if) the fuel delivered warms to 77° F it's volume will be exactly one gallon. That's how I perceive it to work... In the U.S. fuel is delivered via truck, pipeline, etc. is temperature compensated to 60°, and has been for many, many decades. Mike Reed in Lake Odessa, Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Hill To: Michael Reed ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Dave Schwandt Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 13:23 Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Fw: Information on Buying Gas. While true, 77 degrees does seem high for a fixed temperature on compensating pumps, 43 degrees as a mean anual temperature for the country is misleading. Most of Canada's population live (and pump gas) within 150 km of our southern border where the mean temperatures are significantly higher. When I'm pumping gas into my Chrysler 300 (to keep loosely on topic), how does a compensating gas pump work? If the ground temperature is relatively static, and must be well below 77 degrees once stored, is it taking an air temperature reading and compensating for the difference or always assuming the air temperature is at 77 and compensating for the difference between the fuel temperature and 77 degrees? Ryan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: mrreed@xxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 10:33:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Fw: Information on Buying Gas. The problem with the Canadian "solution" is that it is really not a solution at all. About 75% of the gasoline pumps in Canada are temperature compensated -- to a fixed temperature. 77 degrees. The mean annual temperature in Canada is 43 degrees. Anytime the temperature is below 77 degrees you're paying for gasoline you're not getting. In Michigan, where I live, the average temperature of gasoline coming out of underground tanks is 55 degrees. For every degree the air temperature is above 55 degrees (and stays so), you will gain 0.065%. Correspondingly, for every degree the air temperature is below 55 degrees (and stays so), you will lose 0.065%. If the temperature is 80 degrees while you're driving, you will gain about 1/3 of a gallon over the use of 20 gallons. If the temperature is 40 degrees while you're driving, you will lose about 2/10 of a gallon over the use of 20 gallons. I suspect that in Michigan the gains and losses come pretty close to equalling out over the course of a year. Mike Reed in Lake Odessa, Michigan A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked perfectly. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Schwandt To: Michael Reed ; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 8:05 Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Fw: Information on Buying Gas. Besides that, most tanks at modern stations are double lined like a themos bottle. Furthermore, the volume of fuel pumped at major brand stations any more, (diesel at truck stops) ain't in the tank long enough to do anything but be pumped right back out and be gone! Biggest problem in the summer is "hot fuel" direct from the refinery which is sold to the station at "temperature compensated price" and then dispensed hot at the "expanded volume" resulting in screwing the customer. There was a big investigative article in the Kansas City Star last summer about this. I'm sure anyone coukd Google it and do further research if wanted. I have personally pumped fuel in the summer that measured near 100 degrees. This same fuel was sold to the station at the compensated price/gal set at 60 degrees. How much expansion would there be in 7000 gal of fuel from 60 to 100 degrees and how much profit will the station realize by selling this expanded fuel at a given price? Not to mention the extra fuel tax collected (and paid to the state/feds....yeah....right!!!) Some states this alone amounts to near $.50/gal on Diesel. There is a solution to this. It's called temp compesated pumps, as in Canada. Go figure!! Dave Schwandt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Reed" <mrreed@xxxxxxxxx> To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Fw: Information on Buying Gas. > We've been through some of this subject matter before on this forum. > > Everyone should be reminded that purchasing fuel in the early morning does > not result in getting "contracted" volume fuel. The variation in volume > due to temperature only occurs when the fuel is stored in an environment > subject to temperature change. Below the (comparitively shallow) frost > line, the temperature of the earth stays relatively constant year-round. > Most underground fuel tanks are below the frost line -- the fuel drawn > when pumping has invariably been resting below the frost line. > > We don't have vapor return mechanisms in Michigan, so the speed of filling > the tank is relatively immaterial here, at least. It may make a difference > at locations where there is a vapor recovery system. > > Mike Reed in Lake Odessa, Michigan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Barker > To: Listsaver 300 Club > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 3:13 > Subject: [Chrysler300] Fw: Information on Buying Gas. > > > This article is for Chrysler 300's only. Deep in the Article they talk > about how fast the new Gas evaporates. I think this answers why we are > having starting problems when are cars sit to long. Gary Barker > > From: Richard Felixson > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:33 AM > To: Wayne Claypoole ; tom hay ; sol becker ; Ron Painter ; > Rewenner127@xxxxxxx ; ray calkins ; new jerri ; marvin EL ; MARVIN DENNIS > ; Lori Gordon ; Les Lorenzo ; jim west ; J tobin ; Gary Johnson ; eddie t > bowling ; Ed Son Tobin ; ed Collar Collar ; don anthony ; dolores > esoenscheid ; deb & mom ; darlene carmody ; crist sysco ; claudia ; > carlene lopez ; Bob Dyke ; Big Bowling Buddy ; Berniee ; Ben Hahn > Subject: FW: > > -----Original Message----- > From: eevansles@xxxxxxx [mailto:eevansles@xxxxxxx] > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:17 AM > To: taAkins8579@xxxxxxxxx; cindyblack30@xxxxxxxxx; > Richard@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; dklemme@xxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: > > Subject: tips on pumping gas > > TIPS ON PUMPING GAS (Good information) > I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in > California > we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my line of work is > in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to get more > of > your money's worth for every gallon.. > > Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose , CA we > deliver > about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline. One day is > diesel the next day is j et fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium > grades. > We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 > gallons. > > Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the > ground > temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their > storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense > the > gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the > afternoon > or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the > petroleum > business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, > diesel > and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important > role. > A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the > service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps. > > When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast > mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3) stages: > low, > middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on low speed, > thereby > minimizing the vapors that are c reated while you are pumping. All hoses > at > the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some > of > the liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being > sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting > less > worth for your money. > > One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF > FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your > tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster > than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating > roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the > atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, > here > where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that > every gallon is actually the exact amount. > > Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage > tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline > is > being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up > some > of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. > > Hope this will help you get the most value for your money. > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To send a message to this group, send an email to: > Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > For list server instructions, go to > http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm > > For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To send a message to this group, send an email to: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/ Yahoo! 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