RE: [Chrysler300] a quick final ps
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RE: [Chrysler300] a quick final ps
- From: "christopher beilby" <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:18:18 +1000
Re the post just sent - just so readers/you interested, can weight it better
1) South Australia has a scheme for registering cars over 30 years old - you
pay no govt fees annually, just insurance - for $112 annually you can use
the car 90 days a year, go anywhere, thousands of miles away if you wish -
but have a log book in which you must record each day before you drive out -
if you are stopped and no entry noted, you are fined, and rego cancelled.
The Govt reg authority has had one recent attempt to end it (likely re lost
revenue as cars not then registered with usual $600 annual fees?!), and are
real safety conscious, and would seize any opportunity to see it scrapped.
That they have no issue with radial tires seems to really re-inforce that
perhaps there is not too much too worry about, especially with 300 rims
usually wider stock than many other cars that today may wear way wider (plus
being radial) tires than original.
I believe there are currently about 7,000 plus cars on historic rego in SA,
not bad for one of the smallest population states in Australia - plus
thousands of miles of dirt rough outback roads, never mind most of our
bitumen dates back to the 70s, is pretty poor now re patching, etc.?!
2) (a) re the triple lace rims for the Jag - these I was looking at were not
the current Indian made Dunlops, but USA finest latest Daytons (b) friend's
Healey Factory is no small hick operation, has near 30 staff, restores cars
for overseas clients, has rebuilt 60s Le Mans Race car, plus built some of
the fastest baddest sports/race cars around - and Rob the owner wanted to
buy a 300C except his wife maybe got in the way of that. Against all this
is that no wire wheel will likey ever be as stong as a steel rim - just the
point is - radials do generate greater loads on rims - just where and how is
the tricky bit I leave for better experts.
nuff said - Christopher
>From: "christopher beilby" <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx, Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, george@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [Chrysler300] a quick further re wheel failure causes/risks
>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 20:37:59 +1000
>
>A real can of worms - maybe worthwhile worms though - has been opened re
>using our 300s, and tires and rims.
>
>Tony Rinaldi has emailed me the new 300 14 rims are actually even heavier
>than the original 300C rims I have, and I mentioned were already heavier
>than many other 14 inch rims. So if weight equals strength, then those
>really worried re possible failures have an available alternative. (
>however weight need not always be the sole decider of strength - a friend
>works for a new large steel supply business - he said steel imported is
>junk
>compared to aussie made steel, and likely Chrysler also had metalurgists
>(spellt rite I hope?!) who knew what steel to spec/use ?!)
>
>Re radial bead loads versus original tires - two thoughts to clear and
>muddy
>the waters further.
>
>1) here in South Australia, the historic rego govt people/(bozos - if
>sometimes well intentioned ?!!!) have totally no problems with radials on
>original rims, yet will for safety reasons not allow non factory spec and
>make disc brakes - because they fear stub failures if braking force is
>different??! So seemingly they have no probs re radials.
>
>2) My old '62 XKE Jag roadster that owes me a year of my life restoring so
>it best in world still has it's orig skinny chrome wire wheels on it -
>reason - because I was going to fit the triple lace Jag wires they used for
>competition. My long time owning 8th last Cobra built friend owns/runs the
>Healey Factory and is Aust Dayton Wheel Agent. He will not sell me the
>triple lace factoruy spec wheels because modern radial break them. He
>races
>Healeys, and most of his customers are some of the most seerious historic
>racers around - traveling to UK Europe and US. He says the extra loads
>generated are too great.
>
>So figure it all out for yourselves - but sadly how many of you are ever
>going to throw your 300s down a 30 mile long hard dirt road at 100 mph, or
>at 70+ mph on fast sweeping bitumen goat tracks - those that are let me
>know, and I'll come ride with you when I get to the US,
>
>yours Christopher in Oz
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"George McKovich" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Danger of wheel failure unless the rims are
> >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:09:48 -0800
> >
> >I have a thought that perhaps the problem is not the replacement of a
>bias
> >tire with a radial, but the replacement of a skinny tire(a 78 or greater
> >series bias tire, with a 70 series or so radial tire). This I would
>think
> >could possibly place much more stress on the rim and its bead holding
>lip.
> >However in my personal experience I have never had such a problem.
> >
> >My experience with radials goes back to about 1970. I had purchased a
>new
> >69 427 Corvette which came stock with G-70 by 15 bias tires. Firestone
> >had just introduced a radial tire(called the V-1 radial in a GR-70 by 15
> >size as I remember) so I thought that I would give them a try to find if
>I
> >could improve the handling and ride of the Corvette. I beleive that my
> >local tire dealer probably replaced somewhere over 10 tires under
>warranty
> >in an attempt to get a set of round ones. Finally gave up on Firestone
>and
> >installed 60 series radials from BF Goodrich(Radial TA's as I remember)
> >which they had recently introduced. They worked out very well and were
>far
> >superior to the Corvette's stock bias tires in handling and ride comfort.
> >Have never tried a Firestone tire since then, subsequently in the late
>70's
> >and early 80's they almost went under because of the quality of their
> >product. As a matter of fact, everytime that I have wandered away from
> >Michelin(even a blind Frenchman finds an acorn once in awhile) for my
> >normal driving cars, I have always regretted it. They are hard to beat
>for
> >noise levels, ride comfort, truly round, no "radial pull"(I could write a
> >book on this topic) wear, handling and the ability to achieve an
>accurate
> >dynamic(very important) and static balance.
> >
> >Roger Schaaf
> >300 B
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: George McKovich
> > To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:25 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Danger of wheel failure unless the rims are
> >
> >
> > Is there anyone with "scientific" evidence that the wheels from
> >1955-1962
> > were inherently inferior to those built after that period?? Also, is
> >there
> > any "scientific" evidence that RADIAL tires put more stress on wheels.
> >From
> > the stories that have been related thus far, it looks like there are
> >more
> > failures with NON-RADIAL tires being told. I have been told that the
> >side
> > walls on a bias-ply tires is stronger than on a radial with a
>comparable
> > number of plies.... I was told this is one reason to use bias-ply
>tires
> >on
> > my car trailer amd they definitely do seem much firmer in the sidewall
> > areas. Anyone with input???
> >
> > George
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >On
> > Behalf Of Tony Rinaldi
> > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:52 AM
> > To: Lettercars@xxxxxxx; Pete Fitch; Chrysler 300 Club
> > Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Danger of wheel failure unless the rims are
> >
> > Hi Gil,
> >
> > Regarding your awaiting a real tire expert¹s statement that the
>pressure
> >on
> > the bead area of bias ply wheels is greater when they have radial
>tires
> > mounted on them, what about ³Old Tire Man¹s² quote:
> >
> > Nickname: Old tire man
> > Review: You're neglecting a very important design fact when comparing
> >radial
> > and bias tires and rims: How the load is transferred through the tire
>to
> >the
> > rim. Radials transfer the load (vehicle + payload) to the bead of the
> >rim
> > and bias transfers the load upwards through the center of the rim, ie,
> >bias
> > rims are thinner at the bead area than radial rims. I was there when
>we
> >made
> > the transition to radials in the 1970s and I can't tell you how many
> >bias
> > rims I personally have seen 'peeled' at the bead when a radial tire
>was
> > (wrongly) mounted. I won't mount a radial on a bias designed rim, but
> >then I
> > have many years of personal (in a professional setting) experience to
> >rely
> > on. Safety first.
> > Date reviewed: Nov 24, 2006 10:24 PM
> >
> > This was in reply to an article:
> >
> > Classiccar.com
> >
> > A Tale of Two Tires
> > A case for radial tires on your classic car
> >
> > http://www.business
> >
> ><http://www.businessweek.com/@@WsomwGQQ4NgSUwAA/autos/content/may2006/bw2006
> > 0> week.com/@@WsomwGQQ4NgSUwAA/autos/content/may2006/bw20060
> > 504_512529.htm?chan=autos_classic+cars+index+page_insight
> >
> > Regarding the ³K² wheel covers coming off, there are 2 recesses in the
> >³K²
> > wheel covers that engage the 2 bumps in period Mopar wheels. They are
>on
> > either side of the valve stem.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tony
> >
> > For those that insist on frequent cornering to the limit (not that
>there
> >is
> > anything wrong with that!) I would agree stronger rims would probably
>be
> >a
> > good idea. As to the assertion about the radial side wall flexing
> > ("twisting") being worse for the rim bead area than bias---I'll await
>a
> >real
> > tire expert's statement before I buy that.
> >
> > However, I think that was a function of the "K" wheelcover's one piece
> > construction more than the wheel.
> > So there you are---my opinion on the subject and I'm stuck with it!
> >
> > 300ly, Gil Cunningham
> > Chilly Tallahassee, FL
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
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