[Chrysler300] a quick further re wheel failure causes/risks

["christopher beilby" <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

A real can of worms - maybe worthwhile worms though - has been opened re 
using our 300s, and tires and rims.

Tony Rinaldi has emailed me the new 300 14 rims are actually even heavier 
than the original 300C rims I have, and I mentioned were already heavier 
than many other 14 inch rims.  So if weight equals strength, then those 
really worried re possible failures have an available alternative.  ( 
however weight need not always be the sole decider of strength - a friend 
works for a new large steel supply business - he said steel imported is junk 
compared to aussie made steel, and likely Chrysler also had metalurgists 
(spellt rite I hope?!) who knew what steel to spec/use ?!)

Re radial bead loads versus original tires - two thoughts to clear and muddy 
the waters further.

1) here in South Australia, the historic rego govt people/(bozos - if 
sometimes well intentioned ?!!!) have totally no problems with radials on 
original rims, yet will for safety reasons not allow non factory spec and 
make disc brakes - because they fear stub failures if braking force is 
different??!  So seemingly they have no probs re radials.

2) My old '62 XKE Jag roadster that owes me a year of my life restoring so 
it best in world still has it's orig skinny chrome wire wheels on it - 
reason - because I was going to fit the triple lace Jag wires they used for 
competition.  My long time owning 8th last Cobra built friend owns/runs the 
Healey Factory and is Aust Dayton Wheel Agent.  He will not sell me the 
triple lace factoruy spec wheels because modern radial break them.  He races 
Healeys, and most of his customers are some of the most seerious historic 
racers around - traveling to UK Europe and US. He says the extra loads 
generated are too great.

So figure it all out for yourselves - but sadly how many of you are ever 
going to throw your 300s down a 30 mile long hard dirt road at 100 mph, or 
at 70+ mph on fast sweeping bitumen goat tracks - those that are let me 
know, and I'll come ride with you when I get to the US,

yours Christopher in Oz




>From: "Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,"George McKovich" <george@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Danger of wheel failure unless the rims are
>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:09:48 -0800
>
>I have a thought that perhaps the problem is not the replacement of a bias 
>tire with a radial, but the replacement of a skinny tire(a 78 or greater 
>series bias tire, with a 70 series or so radial tire).  This I would think 
>could possibly place much more stress on the rim and its bead holding lip.  
>However in my personal experience I have never had such a problem.
>
>My experience with radials goes back to about 1970.  I had purchased a new 
>69 427 Corvette which came stock with G-70 by 15 bias tires.   Firestone 
>had just introduced a radial tire(called the V-1 radial in a GR-70 by 15 
>size as I remember) so I thought that I would give them a try to find if I 
>could improve the handling and ride of the Corvette.  I beleive that my 
>local tire dealer probably replaced somewhere over 10 tires under warranty 
>in an attempt to get a set of round ones.  Finally gave up on Firestone and 
>installed 60 series radials from BF Goodrich(Radial TA's as I remember) 
>which they had recently introduced.  They worked out very well and were far 
>superior to the Corvette's stock bias tires in handling and ride comfort.  
>Have never tried a Firestone tire since then, subsequently in the late 70's 
>and early 80's they almost went under because of the quality of their 
>product.   As a matter of fact, everytime that I have wandered away from 
>Michelin(even a blind Frenchman finds an acorn once in awhile) for my 
>normal driving cars, I have always regretted it.  They are hard to beat for 
>noise levels, ride comfort, truly round, no "radial pull"(I could write a 
>book on this topic) wear,  handling and the ability to achieve an accurate 
>dynamic(very important) and static balance.
>
>Roger Schaaf
>300 B
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: George McKovich
>   To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>   Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:25 PM
>   Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Danger of wheel failure unless the rims are
>
>
>   Is there anyone with "scientific" evidence that the wheels from 
>1955-1962
>   were inherently inferior to those built after that period?? Also, is 
>there
>   any "scientific" evidence that RADIAL tires put more stress on wheels. 
>From
>   the stories that have been related thus far, it looks like there are 
>more
>   failures with NON-RADIAL tires being told. I have been told that the 
>side
>   walls on a bias-ply tires is stronger than on a radial with a comparable
>   number of plies.... I was told this is one reason to use bias-ply tires 
>on
>   my car trailer amd they definitely do seem much firmer in the sidewall
>   areas. Anyone with input???
>
>   George
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>   From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
>On
>   Behalf Of Tony Rinaldi
>   Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:52 AM
>   To: Lettercars@xxxxxxx; Pete Fitch; Chrysler 300 Club
>   Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Danger of wheel failure unless the rims are
>
>   Hi Gil,
>
>   Regarding your awaiting a real tire expert¹s statement that the pressure 
>on
>   the bead area of bias ply wheels is greater when they have radial tires
>   mounted on them, what about ³Old Tire Man¹s² quote:
>
>   Nickname: Old tire man
>   Review: You're neglecting a very important design fact when comparing 
>radial
>   and bias tires and rims: How the load is transferred through the tire to 
>the
>   rim. Radials transfer the load (vehicle + payload) to the bead of the 
>rim
>   and bias transfers the load upwards through the center of the rim, ie, 
>bias
>   rims are thinner at the bead area than radial rims. I was there when we 
>made
>   the transition to radials in the 1970s and I can't tell you how many 
>bias
>   rims I personally have seen 'peeled' at the bead when a radial tire was
>   (wrongly) mounted. I won't mount a radial on a bias designed rim, but 
>then I
>   have many years of personal (in a professional setting) experience to 
>rely
>   on. Safety first.
>   Date reviewed: Nov 24, 2006 10:24 PM
>
>   This was in reply to an article:
>
>   Classiccar.com
>
>   A Tale of Two Tires
>   A case for radial tires on your classic car
>
>   http://www.business
>   
><http://www.businessweek.com/@@WsomwGQQ4NgSUwAA/autos/content/may2006/bw2006
>   0> week.com/@@WsomwGQQ4NgSUwAA/autos/content/may2006/bw20060
>   504_512529.htm?chan=autos_classic+cars+index+page_insight
>
>   Regarding the ³K² wheel covers coming off, there are 2 recesses in the 
>³K²
>   wheel covers that engage the 2 bumps in period Mopar wheels. They are on
>   either side of the valve stem.
>
>   Regards,
>   Tony
>
>   For those that insist on frequent cornering to the limit (not that there 
>is
>   anything wrong with that!) I would agree stronger rims would probably be 
>a
>   good idea. As to the assertion about the radial side wall flexing
>   ("twisting") being worse for the rim bead area than bias---I'll await a 
>real
>   tire expert's statement before I buy that.
>
>   However, I think that was a function of the "K" wheelcover's one piece
>   construction more than the wheel.
>   So there you are---my opinion on the subject and I'm stuck with it!
>
>   300ly, Gil Cunningham
>   Chilly Tallahassee, FL
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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