Roger, the mythology surrounding 1956 race D500s (and to some extent,
regular D500s, too) concerns varying extents of exaggeration,
regarding the cars' acceleration capability and/or racing results.
I have seen claims of under 13 second quarter miles, IIRC, for the
D-500-1 .
Most recently, good friend Dan Reitz has written here to claim that his
camshaft-
modified 56 D500 recorded 15.3 e.t.(s).
I could accept 16.3 , on a great day.
BTW, as a sneak-preview on tomorrow's essay, I will point out that the
factory-supported, race-prepped/expert-driven (probably with X-number
of trial runs) 56 D-500-1 race car's Daytona-"times" would have
resulted in a FOURTH place finish, in 1957, very similarly to the 4th
place finishes as accomplished by two rank amateurs, who drove to the
Beach, alone, in their brand-new-purchased, D501's, and who had no trial
runs in their cars, and who had no fine-tuning or adjustments on their
cars, prior to their runs. They then drove back home, afterwards.
The fact that the D501's were so powerful, but only able to score 4th
place finishes in the Standing, and in the Flying, mile-runs speaks
volumes about how poorly prepared, and/or driven, the cars really were.
Regarding the Standing Mile run, the 3-speed trannie probably was a
handful to operate, quickly, by an amateur.
Neil Vedder
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--- Begin Message ---
- From: Jan & Roger van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 19:38:33 -0700
As Jack Webb said, "Just the facts, ma'am!"
Neil, I don't get it; with all the testing variables, thew only factual
conclusion I can draw from what you said is:
"A fair performance evaluation between the 315 motor-that-roared and the 345
King Kong is not
possible, if only because they never competed head-to-head in any one
competition."
So what's the MYTH?
Other points:
--The 1956 D500-1 had four-bolt exhaust manifolds.
--What is "SWAG?"
--If the '57 HP was underrated, wasn't the '56 also underrated?
I still don't see any emiprical "proof." Why don't you and Tim get together
for a snactioned drag race?
--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '56 Plymouth, '66
Plymouth, '41 Dodge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eastern Sierra Adjustment Services" <esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: [FWDLK] ...I Ain't afraid of no Ghosts (or: Mythology Ain't what it
used to be)
This is my first posting from my office confuser.
I didn't want to have to spend all this time, in reseraching/preparing
this Report, but, when a Myth
refuses to die, it's gotta be addressed.
If numbers/documentation bores you: please delete this : NOW.
The standard 1956 D500 Hemi displaced 315 c.i. and had an advertised 260
gross H.P.
The racing version, known as the D-500-1 had a heavily modified, with 2
4- barrel carbs ( front being from
a 56 Adventurer and the rear from a 300B, 2-bolt Dodge truck exhaust
manifolds, and was rated at 295 gross HP.
The standard 1957 D500 engine, and the Super D500, (which had 2 4-bbl
carbs, and dual-point ignition) were virtually
identical, internally, and were rated at 285/310 gross HP, respectively.
The 1957 race-designed D-501 engine was an EXTREMELY internally re-worked
345 c.i. 300B engine, which
had 300C crankshaft, light weight valves, 300C carbs, 4-bolt Dodge truck
exhaust manifolds, and
was LAUGHINGLY rated at 340 gross HP, when it was actually much-stronger
than the 355 HP optional 1956
300B engine .
So, a fair performance evaluation, between the 315 motor-that-roared, and
the 345 King Kong is not
possible, if only because they never competed head-to-head, in any one
competition, and, for the
1956 Daytona Speed Weeks, the record-setting car was driven, and tuned, by
:" Chief Test Driver/engineer Danny Eames
(according to "Sports Cars Illustrated", 8/56, & "Hot Rod, 5/56)" , who,
obviously wanted to create a maximum advertising-impression, whereas the
two competing 1957 Speed Weeks D501's were bought, and run by :" a couple
of 'man-off-the-street' entries in the Flying Mile [actually both the
Flying Mile & the Standing Mile- N.V.]" (" Hot Rod", 5/57 & Sports
Illustrated 2/25/57). Both cars were driven to Daytona, campaigned, and
then were driven home, afterward.
Dodge/Chrysler, for whatever reason(s), and possibly due to the success
that Carl Kiekaefer had been enjoying,
as a racing-privateer, during the 1956 NASCAR season, did not see fit to
extend ANY 'factory' tune-up/
preparation assistance toward Dodge's 1957 Speed Weeks competition, and,
the results therefrom (below) bear
testament to that lack of attention, or concern.
So, if there is/are no published factory-or-direct competition results
regarding the vastly different engines (and the
chassis/platforms upon which they resided) , there IS a way to
extrapolate what the real-world performance
would have been, regarding the 1956 D-500-1 315c.i. engine/car, and that
is by examining and comparing the standard 1956 315c.i. D500 (rated at
260 HP) engine/car's published performance, against that of the 1957
325c.i. standard D500 (rated at 285 HP) engine/car.
And, for THAT, there is ample published records. Numerous automotive
magazines tested both years' D500's.
ORGANIZING the performance results, for easy assimilation, is not so easy.
There were many rear end ratios (in addition to the 3-speed manual, and
2-speed PowerFlite (1956 only)
and the 3-speed TorqueFlite (1957 only) available for both years, and the
1956 D500's were tested using a variety of
rear ends.
The 1957 D500's were EXCLUSIVELY road tested using the standard 3.36:1
(open) rear end, and the optional
3-speed Torqueflite trannie.
"Motor Life" had a rather unique, 1-year-only (5/56) "Performance Ratings
of 1956 Cars". There is charted
rather arbitrary-appearing statistics, on 22 car-brands, and their various
engines.
However, they have one column/stat :" Dig Out Factor" , and the '56 D500
rates a 130 (auto) and 160
(stick). All 4 Buick models rate between 140 -160 , the Oldsmobile
between 140- 150, and the Plymouth
(including the Fury) between 120- 170. The Dodges "Acceleration Factor",
of 29-30 is only exceeded by
the Fury's 31-32 ; the standard, heavy, 300B got a 28 , in Acceleration
Factor. Again, I do not know
what these numbers represent, but they are interesting to consider.
"Speed Age"(6/56) tested a 56 D500 , but not a 57 (as far as I can
determine). It recorded a 0-60 of
9.1 seconds , with no quarter mile runs , on a CRL 2-dr [ BTW, from a
review of the license plates,
it appears that all of the 1956 D500's (and the 57's) involved DIFFERENT
cars] having PowerFlite and standard
relatively-low-geared 3.73 rear end gearset.
"Motor Trend" fully tested a fully-loaded 1957 Custom Royal 4-dr sedan
D500(2/57) , and extensively drove, but barely mentioned (one column, on 1
page, #14) having driven TWO 1956 D500's (6/56); a 2-dr sedan stick, and a
2-dr
HT P/Flite.
Regarding the heavy-57, MT put it on a dynamometer, and determined that
the 285 gross HP translated to 148
Road Horsepower, or about 52% of gross HP. The car's weight was 4190 lbs,
with 56/44 weight ratio.
MT recorded a 0-60 of 9.4 , and a 1/4 mile time of 17.2, @ 79 mph.
MT provides very-little info on its 2 1956 D500s, but says that it
recorded 0-60 times of 8.9 seconds, for
the stick-2-dr, and 9.5 seconds for the auto-2-dr (both would probably
have had the standard 3.73 rear ends
installed with each trannie).
MT states, however, that their 50 -80 mph timing showed identical 12
second times, so, they recommend
the purchase of the automatic, rather than the stick :" Let's face it:
Chrysler Corp clutches and manual transmissions
are not in a league with their engines for performance or durability."
The 1957 D500's 50-80 passing-speed timing was 10.9 seconds.
"Hot Rod" (5/56) is greatly informative. It road tests a V/8 Belvedere, a
D500, and a MODIFIED Fury
(which performance might approximate that of a D-500-1 race car).
As far as the D500 is concerned, the CRL 2-dr got weighed, at 3,880 lbs,
with 60/40 distribution.
Put onto the dynamometer, it recorded 132 Road Horsepower (at 4100 RPM, at
91mph), or about 51%
of its gross HP rating.
HR found an 8.8 second 0-60 time, if the P/Flite was left in Low-range.
They didn't publish a time, for an only
"Drive" gear attempt., and with that 3.73 ratio.
Now, it gets interesting : "Our test car has bagged a few stock car class
trophies at the San Fernando drag strip to
date. The fastest time in the 1/4 mile is 83.6 mph. A D500 Coronet 'stick'
2-dr , also owned by san Fernando Valley
Motors, presently possesses the strip class record of 84.6 mph. It is
rquipped with a 4.56 rear end gear ratio and an
optional camshaft. While the top speeds of both cars through the 1/4 mile
are only one mph apart, the e.t. of the stick-
shift car is about 1 1/2 seconds less than the P/lite equipped car."
UNFORTUNATELY, no actual elapsed-times are given-out, by MT.
Although there may be no way of determining the actual e.t., of a 84.6
trap-speed, my SWAG is that
the car was running in the mid 16's (see the 57 Coro's time, below).
Regarding the modified 56 Fury, MT says that the car was developed too
late, to quality for the 1956 Speed Weeks
under the "prototype" category. But, the car's 303c.i. engine had 9.25:1
c.r. with domed pistons, balanced rods,
VERY-high performance camshaft, mechanical lifters, adjustable rockers
with hi-load springs, dual breaker system, and
under Bob Cahill's careful eye, a custom-fitted Chrysler dual-carb
intake, with 300B carbs attached.
The car averaged 136.415, on the Daytona course's Flying Mile, which is
rather faster than the 130.577
which was run by Chrysler engineer/test driver Danny Eames, above.
BTW, the times of the two amateurs, who drove the 57 D501's at Daytona
are : Edward Lyons; Flying Mile:
129.753 , and Elton Lyle ; Standing Mile : 84.408
Both men ran-whut-they-brung, and both finished fourth (out of
5-recognised placings) in their two
classes.
Danny Eames FACTORY-SUPPORTED 1956 Standing Mile time was 81.786mph (HR,
5/56; pg.18)
SO: of the two amateurs, one got beaten by a pro, by less than 1mph, and
the other one BEAT the
pro, by about 3mph.
Let's move-on, to "Sports Cars Illustrated" (later to become Car & Driver,
and issues 8/56 & 7/57 ).
SCI recorded 10.1 & 9.6 0-60 times, on a CRL 2-dr, in "Drive" & "Low",
and with 1/4 times of 17.6 & 17.2
with 79mph & 81mph, respectively.
In 1957, a Coronet D500 2-dr was tested, and it weighed-in at 3,920lbs,
with 58/42 weight distribution.
Although riding on the SMALLEST (stock) tires: 7.50x14" [8.00 & 8.50's
were optional, and ALL
of the 56 D500s rode on 7.60x15" tires] the testers recorded 8.5 seconds
0-60and a 1/4 mile time
of 16.6 seconds. The trap speed was 83mph.
That means that a standard Coro D500, on skinny tires scored e.t's that
were virtually as fast as a full-on
1956 (apparently: single 4-bbl, but who knows?) drag race car (running
4.56 gearing!).
Now, we turn to "Mechanix Illustrated" (issues 12/55 & 4/57).
Uncle Tom was not a real stickler of recording statistical documentation.
He shot-from-the-hip,
and only mentioned 0-60 times.
For 1956, U.T. states that he got 10.4 0-60 out of a CRL 2-dr., AND , for
the 1956 die-hards, who
only remember their Speedo-times) he states that the car's speedo-error
was 11% too-fast, and that the 10.4
time was 'with' a corrected speedometer.
In 1957, the CRL 2-dr recorded 8.7 seconds 0-60, and its speedo error was
59.1 , at an indicated 60mph.
Finally (sorta!) , and altho I'm sure that your home libraries include
this, I'm going to reference my issue
of CONSUMER REPORTS (9/56 ; no '57+ D500 road tests, alas) which did a
comprehensive testing
on (yet again, a different car!) with 10.4 second (sound familiar?) 0-60
and with, drumroll, please........
an 18.2 SECOND quarter mile recorded : "....all gears used to maximum
advantage".
Their car weighed in at 3,875lbs, with 56/44 distribution. Their car was
running an optional 3.54 gear ratio,
but, that's pretty-close to the standard 3.73 ratio.
Believe it or not: I'm getting tired of all this.
Tomorrow, I'll discuss some other post-1957 performance times, and you can
determine for yourselves whether
or not a 1956 315c.i. Dodge Hemi (with 2-speed auto, or 3-speed manual
transmission) could out drag them!
Neil Vedder
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