To clarify – the M/C with the flatter reservoir area will clear the booster with no problem. Either should work fine if manual brakes, but you need the low-profile one for power brakes. From: Forward Look Mopar Discussion List [mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dave Stragand
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 3:06 PM
To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] dual masters- was RB 383 cam Here’s a post I made in 2001 on the topic. Paid $16 for the M/C. http://www.forwardlook.net/mail-archive/msg14926.html I used a 68 Roadrunner drum/drum M/C on the DeSoto, and a 68 Roadrunner disc/drum on the Plymouth (which has AAJ front discs). They bolt directly on. I have seen two different styles of these though – one is much taller than the other. The flatter one is the one that fits correctly. From: Forward Look Mopar Discussion List [mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Adam
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 2:27 PM
To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] dual masters- was RB 383 cam And if you pirate the pedal pushrod from a '57 or early '58 they're adjustable Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Stragand <dave.stragand@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Actually, I installed dual masters on both of my Forward Looks, because it was: - Cheap (like $40 for a brand new M/C) - Easy to retrofit (bolt-on. If you have power brakes you may need to grind down the end of the pushrod a little to fit the end of the piston. I have seen different size rods. Plumbed new lines down to the T and joined them in. Easy to go back to stock if desired. - Finally able to get rid of the separate plumbing connection / high failure point of the hydraulic switch by installing a switch on the pedal. While I can see the points about originality, etc – I think safety items such as a dual M/C, bright headlights & seat belts are worth being “non-original”. All appear period-correct to the casual observer. -Dave The brake light switch screws into the front (sometimes at the bottom
orifice) of the OEM M/C.
Installing a dualie is not cheap, quick, or really easy to retrofit, and includes
a separate plumbing-connection of that switch into the brake's hydraulic system.
See attached. On 8/5/2014 8:32 PM, Roger van Hoy wrote: Ok, I’ll bite. Where’s the “brake light switch warning light” on an original ‘57 Dodge’s master cylinder? AFAIK the brake light hydraulic switch threads into the front of the master cylinder and any leaking would be out of the master, not into it. The parking brake warning light [optional equipment] is on the emergency brake assembly and is a mechanical switch. That reminds me, our old emergency brakes work marginally well in an emergency, not just for parking. In 1996 on the way to the DeSoto Nationals in Sacramento a guy in a ‘56 DeSoto pulled off the freeway at around 60, hit the brakes on the off ramp, they failed, and he was able to stop the car. [He also got the hard luck award.] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [FWDLK] dual masters- was RB 383 cam And especially unfortunate because your single pot M/C had been overhauled
and was 'working' (i.e.: merely holding surplus brake fluid in it, without leaking).
My car's single-pot failure occurred in 1981, shortly after I had bought it, and after
it had been dead stored for years, and while not realizing that all of the various fluid
levels should be checked periodically.
Unbeknownst to me (because I wasn't checking the brake fluid level) was that a small
amount of fluid was being forced out, past the brake light switch warning light's
threaded insertion (no teflon tape around it) into the M/C, every time that the brake
was applied.
Neil Vedder On 8/5/2014 8:57 AM, Jim wrote: Or there's this.... You remove the single mc that has worked fine for 50 years and ask your mechanic to install a dual plus disk brakes cuz "you want to be safe". You get the car back and it stops fine. 6 months later you are driving on the freeway in the rain and traffic is stopped up ahead. You put on the brakes and the new front flex hose bursts because it was a little too short and positioned at too sharp an angle and has already fatigued. But you still have the rear brakes... but since you slam on the brakes because they are barely stopping the car (without the fronts you only have 20% braking capacity) the left rear locks up. The car slides out of control on the wet pavement, you spin across 3 lanes and into a gas tanker which bursts into flames. Dozens of people flee in the ensuing panic, those who don't die in the fire are run over, the tanker was under a bridge, which weakened by the fire collapses cutting off access to a home for the elderly. Two of the elderly, seeing the melee, have heart attacks. They die because the ambulance couldn't get to them because the bridge was burned down by the tanker. If you'd still had the single MC on none of this would have happened... now single masters don't seem so bad! Here's a scenario... you have a perfectly maintained single master brake system in your 57 Saratoga, while trying to tune in your restored AM radio, you look up while driving and see its too late! you just ran over an old guy crossing the street!!! he flies of the top of the car but his walker went under and folded and rolled, and subsequently caught and tore out your rear flexible hydraulic line! now you have no brakes and proceed to broadside a bus full of illegal immigrants, you go through the windshield upon impact due to lack of belts, airbags, and brakes, the bus flips, and all the passengers burn to death, though one good event took place lightening the burden on taxpayers, an old man, his walker, your car, and bodily well being were compromised! If you had a dual master, you may have still hit the old guy, but not the bus... now single masters don't seem so bad! -----Original Message-----
From: Neil Vedder mailto:esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: L-FORWARDLOOK mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue, Aug 5, 2014 3:10 am
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam LOL (not)....if they failed, they were not properly maintained, or overhauled, to prevent such
failures from having occurred.
Neil Vedder On 8/4/2014 4:37 PM, Ray Jones wrote: The idea here is that with Dual MC, you have 2 brake systems. Not much trouble to plumb, using the tubing and components from a later year car, it's a big safety upgrade. And, yes, I have had several MC's fail over the too many years I've been driving these old jewels. You said you had a wheel cylinder fail, giving you a brake problem. With a dual system, you would still have the other half to get home on. A total upgrade with calipers and rotors on the front, and better yet on the back also is a real improvement and brings the car up to highway cruising safety standards. Ray in Mena, AR On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Jim <0000093b5b69d73c-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I know it's possible for brake MC to fail but in 50 years of driving I myself have had brakes fail only once and it wasn't the MC, it was a front wheel cylinder and I don't know anyone else who has ever had a MC fail. Wear out enough that they had to pump the brakes, yes, but they knew it and it caused no problems. It seems like a silly thing to worry and obsess over when you consider that the entire old car is a death trap compared to todays cars. Let's see, 68 Barracuda Formula S with dual pot power disc brakes, 57 Dodge pick up with single pot original brakes, 65 Rambler Marlin with dual pot power disc brakes, and a 59 Rambler Custom sedan with single pot drum brakes so I guess we are on the fence with this one, but I can tell you which ones I am more comfortable driving in todays traffic. Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam It lists ZDDP as ppm, not percentage like Valvoline’s website. It’s only the 15W-50 that’s got high ZDDP. Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam | | ![image]()
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Valvoline 20/50 Racing; lots of ZDDP, for me.
And, even, Hemmings has gotten into the act, by selling synthetic
(which is really over-kill, IMHO) ZDDP-loaded motor oil.
Whether ZDDP is needed or not, in a lightly-used engine (like all of ours
are)....it is 'cheap' insurance and can not hurt anything, but our
pocketbooks---check Hemmings' 6-pack pricing (photo attachment).
Neil Vedder
On 8/3/2014 4:24 PM, Richard Whelan wrote: We use Brad Penn, made in the old Kendall refinery in Bradford PA. Similar to Kendall GT-1 with plenty of ZDDP. Dick Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam Another approach is to use Valvoline VR-1 racing oil; it has more ZDDP. However, a friend showed me an article in the Packard Pelican or whatever it is that says VR-1 doesn’t have enough detergent. I suspect it’s still more than oil 50 years ago. Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam I've found two easy ways to get the ZDDP back in the oil. One is to buy the Redline Break-In Additive and use about 3 oz of it with each oil change. The other, even easier, is to buy a can of STP, which has the right amount of ZDDP in it, when you buy the oil and filter and put the STP in along with the new oil. The advantage of the Redline is that it's actually a little cheaper per dose and is easy to poor. The STP is thick and hard to pour. But the STP is available anywhere so it's pretty convenient. Thanks for the input guys. I agree about the oil. I've driven the car a total of about 10 miles since buying it from another list member who also didn't drive it during his ownership I believe. There is a receipt from a commercial garage showing a ring and bearing job, but the receipt has no date on it. The inside of the engine is very clean and the oil isn't bad either so since that minor overhaul it must have been reasonably maintained, but of course with low ZDDP oil like we are all stuck with in the mainstream oils. I'm thinking of using rotella once I'm back up and running since I don't have a converter to get clogged up with zinc. Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana, harboring of bunch of old and newer Mopars On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Neil Vedder <esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Oh, that must be absolutely true, because nobody in the old car
hobby knows about the effects of NOT having ZDDP in flat tappet
car engines.
And, of course, the ruined cam shafts render the car and its engine completely
unrepairable and worthless.
The car mechanics, in particular, hate the effects of having to work on these
damaged engines.
Neil Vedder On 8/3/2014 12:05 AM, Dave Homstad wrote: Bill, You might give some thought as to WHY the cam has developed 3 bad lobes. Here is a good article about how "OIL IS KILLING OUR CARS!!!!!". http://www.dctra.org/?p=79 Personnally, I think this is a plot by the EPA to get old cars off the roads quicker, by removing the ZDDP from our oils. Dave Homstad 56 Dodge D500 On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Bill Parker wrote: Hello all, I tore into the '60 Saratoga engine today, an RB 383, and as I suspected from the symptoms, it has a wiped camshaft. One lobe is just a little nubbin', and two others are clearly half what they should be. Seems like a simple cam swap is in order except of course for the small matter of early B/RB lifters and pushrods being different dimensions from the later ('66 and later?) stuff. >From a previous experience with putting a cam and lifter kit into a '65 engine, I think I recall that the late lifters are taller, and must use the late pushrods to compensate. I could have it backwards, but in any case, I think the solution to using a late cam and lifter kit is using the late pushrods too. I have several core 440 engines and I'm thinking, make a cam selection, buy the late style lifters with it, and use a set of the 440 pushrods (being that both my '60 383 and the 440's are RB engines with the same deck height). Comments/cautions/suggestions? This is not my hot rod and I plan to go with a pretty mild cam. Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana, harboring of bunch of old and newer Mopars ************************************************************* To unsubscribe or set your subscription options, please go to http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=l-forwardlook&A=1 Help The Forward Look with every Amazon purchase by clicking here! Help the Forward Look with every eBay purchase by starting your search here! *************************************************************
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Ray Jones. Y'all come on down an see us. Ya hear?
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