Re: [FWDLK] Living with modern anti-freeze products
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Re: [FWDLK] Living with modern anti-freeze products



And mon cheri, anti-freeze was installed to prevent freezing, not
over-heating.


Neil Vedder


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  • From: Jan & Roger van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:30:00 -0700
Your manual probably also says to use 30 weight oil or maybe the "new" 10W-30 and to lube the chassis every 1,000 miles. It probably also says to only have your car serviced by your certified Dodge serviceMAN. [No women allowed.] And your Dodge probably requires 7.50 or 7.75 x 14 tires, bias ply of course.

The point is that times change and how to care for cars changes along with it.

You're welcome to use alcohol anti-freeze if you want and you can find it; heck, use Everclear if you want.

You did answer your own question, Neil, glycol-based anti-freeze was used year-round even back then. It was required in A/C cars, but useable in any. And ethylene glycol raises the boiling point as well as lowering the freezing point.

--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '56 Plymouth, '66 Plymouth, '41 Dodge




----- Original Message ----- From: "Eastern Sierra Adjustment Svc" <esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] Living with modern anti-freeze products


FWIW, the factory stated that ONLY clean distilled-type plain water needed to be installed in our cars, and that "Anti-Freeze" was to be used, seasonally, when the weather got below- freezing, and, to protect an air-conditioned car from having its cooling-water FREEZE up,
in the winter time.

I went 'around' with several people, a couple years ago, and, I (really-) just happen to have the 57 Dodge Service manual in my lap, so, if I might quote, therefrom
(assuming that clean water is as clean, now, as it was, in 1957) :

" Only clean, soft water filled to 1 1/4" (approximately) below the bottom of the filler neck, should be used in the radiator and the cooling system of the engine. Hard water will form a scale, not
only in the radiator core, but in the engine block and head as well."

...later, In boldface : "Every time the cooling system is drained and refilled with water, a recommended
rust inhibitor (available thru the Parts Department) must be added."

Then: " Anti-freeze is recommended for use in the cooling system when the temperature is likely to be below 32 degrees F. Other anti-freeze solutions that are serviceable are denatured alcohol, methanol (synthetic wood alcohol) and ethylene glycol, when suitable inhibitors are added.

Cars equipped with air conditioning must use a glycol-base permanent type anti-freeze in the cooling system throughout the entire year...this precaution is necessary inasmuch as the air conditioner evaporator lies in close proximity to the heater core, which may cause coolant in heater core TO FREEZE
[my emphasis] if system is not protected."

BTW, if the radiator top tank is not over-filled, to begin with (the water level should be just above the top of the internal cooling core) and, if the radiator cap (14psi recommended) is operating properly, that "over-flow" tube, along the top of the radiator, will ONLY have to expell excess AIR PRESSURE from the cooling system, and no coolant will have been lost.

At least, that's precisely what the SERVICE MANUAL has to say on the subject of water, and
coolant, and radiator caps.

Neil Vedder--who uses a 50/50 mixture of water/anti-freeze in his car, year around.





Paul Holmgren wrote:
Ok, after this subject has been beat to death several times, and after a lot of reading, both reports, and manufacturing claims, and taking into account direct experiences, I think I have figured out the main thing we need to so for our
vintage cars surviving this sort of modern automotive chemistry.

OVERFLOW tanks, of any sort that allows an overflow radiator cap AND fluid maintained in the tank. THE reason seems to be that NO air is to be in the cooling system at all. I think all current formulations being sold today are of this nature. The only way to do this is to purge as much air out of the cooling system and to maintain the same mix in the overflow tank. As the final bit of air gets purged by the normal operation of the system then the fluid that is used will not break down as fast in the cooling system. The particulates that settle out and develop the crud that blocks the heater core and other small passages then does not happen (normally), sometimes as fast as 6 - 12 months. This short time span breakdown I have personally seen and experienced in systems
comparable to the 55 - 65 cooling system designs.

I think the first signs of the breakdown can be seen in the overflow tanks as a film of buildup of the particulates as they settle out of the fluids exposed to
air in the overflow tank.

All one should have to do for the 2 or so years between changes is to make sure that the overflow container never runs dry during the periods that you operate
your car.

I personally will still adhere to the 2 year change out cycle, regardless of the vintage automobile. We have seen the desirability of doing this even with modern
cars.

AND above all else, Do Not Mix Types of coolant in the same system.


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