I've met Mr. Kahlenberg and respect his opinion very highly.
However, I'm not sure his quote supports what he's being referenced as
saying. It seems that he is being highly diplomatic in his quoted excerpt
and is fairly neutral on the issue. All I see therein is that there was a
brochure-gate in the fall of 1954 which resulted in higher '55 Plymouth V-8
HP advertised rating.
[FYI, there's another little twist to that story; in January, 1955 the
smaller 241 ci V8 was dropped so that Plymouth could truthfully advertise
the highest standard HP of the low-priced V8's. (Source: Jeffrey Godshall)]
My point is, and remains, that old information can be taken out of context
to attempt to "prove" a matter which really can't be proven to a reliable
level of scientific certainty. There are so many variables involved that
cannot be verified 50 years later.
I remain concerned that this revisionist history can and is becoming
personally contentious and is causing more harm to individuals than good of
the order.
Yes you could get Tim or someone else with a D500-1 to race a 1/4 mile, but
he's reluctant to push a 51 year old car and I don't blame him. It's like
beating your gramma. And it still wouldn't prove or disprove what happened
50-51 years ago.
--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '56 Plymouth, '66
Plymouth, '41 Dodge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Stroup" <tstroup@xxxxxxxx>
To: "Jan & Roger van Hoy" <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: [FWDLK] Whatta Drag (News)....
To address your second item, listed below, I would like to reference the
email of 11/2/07
from Mr. Kahlenberg. They made it up. Would you agree, or would you call
him a liar ?
In the "old days" everyone did not own dynamometers or track timing light
assemblies.
You basically read what was printed and believed it, or not. By 1969, the
NHRA no
longer believed Mopar's published figures. The 275 horsepower was
"factored" to 300, and
the tri-powered big-block Vettes and 426 Hemi cars could have been
published at whatever
rating the factory wished, as long as they chose an appropriate rpm to go
along with it.
The 426 Hemi was only 425 hp as long as the rpms were kept under 5500, for
example.
Now, you can get your car dyno'd at most big meets, and the local
Austin-Healey Club
runs timing lights when we autocross. My G-Tech can give astounding, true,
numbers.
Nay-sayers could argue for correction for temperature, and altitude, and
so on, without end.
Zora Arkus-Duntov did some fine preparation of the old vettes and raced
for some records,
until the factory put a stop to that. The factories then supported their
chosen favorites by
help "out the back door" to those teams. Some have come forward, in print,
and I believe them.
Our "proof" of the cars from back then would be verified if a current
owner would step up.
I quote Mr. Kahlenberg:
Fellow Forwardlookers:
I read with much interest the discussion of the horsepower designated for
the various cars. Mr. Ross Roy and his company was responsible for
corporate publicity and the printing and text of brochures. Being a
personal friend of Ross, a man who started a comparison publication for
Dodge vs the competition in 1928 with his brother in Detroit, I am
personally aware of how the horsepower rating was determined.
As an example, in 1954, prior to the introduction of the Forward look 55
Plymouth V8, Mr. Roy was aware that Chevy was going to introduce their V8.
So here is how they bested the Chevy and Ford horsepower ratings. Since
they knew where the Chevy and Ford publications were being printed, they
(Ross Roy including some cohorts) went into the trash bins and pulled out
the printing culls. They made sure that the horsepower ratings were
included.
After this mid-night escapade, Ross and his staff met and determined what
horsepower would be placed in their publication (brochure) Bear in mind,
the number was going to be higher than either competitor. Somehow, I
remember 177 was he number.
So, the number was semi-realistic with a bit of smudge for posterity.
Sherwood Kahlenberg
P.S. Kudos to Neil and Tim for their discussions and facts.
Thanks for virtually listening,
Tom S
southern Ohio in thunder and lightning rain storms.
________________________________
From: Forward Look Mopar Discussion List on behalf of Jan & Roger van Hoy
Sent: Sun 11/11/2007 6:11 AM
To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] Whatta Drag (News)....
JUST THE FACTS !!!
What PROOF do you have that the D500-1 was not disallowed in Stock Class?
What PROOF do you have that Chrysler
OVER-estimated gross HP in the 1950's?
What PROOF do you have of what HP the
D500-1 was producing at the rear wheels?
What PROOF do you have of the D500-1 car's actual weight?
PROOF as in hard fast empirical data, not some dusty old magazine rag that
wanted to improve its circulation.
You ain't documented s - - t !!!
--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '56 Plymouth, '66
Plymouth, '41 Dodge
----- Original Message -----
From: "eastern sierra Adj Services" <esierraadj@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:esierraadj@xxxxxxxxx> >
To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] Whatta Drag (News)....
Roger, you're getting to the party, awfully late.
Virtually every red-herring, and obfuscation, that you're raising now,
has already been discussed and or documented in the many earlier
postings on this subject.
To bring you up to speed (ahem), we are now attempting to try document
any D500-1 official race results, in which classes, and are trying to
confirm the 1956-ish NHRA rules regarding class placements.
Neil Vedder
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