Dear Greg, Russell, & others,
I think this applies to the buying & selling of Imperials so I'll forge ahead.
I have never heard of Cars of Particular Interest. However, I did a quick Google search and discovered that CPI was recently purchased by the Black Book company, which is used by a large number of car dealerships to determine values for trade-ins. I don't know how BB got to their current position of leadership, but many dealerships do not use Kelley Blue Book or even the NADA guides, they use only Black Book. These are little pocketsize books that come out weekly (I think) or quite frequently anyway, and are considered to be the most up to date guides out there, at least for car salesmen. The values in them are based on auctions. I do not think it is accurate to say that the values in CPI are based on Black Book values, because as far as I know BB values are only for late model cars, not antiques.
I am not sure why BB would buy or even have any interest in CPI, except that maybe this is a niche they felt they hadn't covered yet. All I really know about BB is, they are lower than Kelley Blue Book or NADA, and if you try to get a KBB or NADA value for your trade-in the car guys will tell you they don't "recognize" those guides, they only use Black Book. In other words, it has in the past been a kind of "industry only" or "closed to the public" kind of guidebook, used to help car salesmen undervalue your trade-in (at least, that's the way I see it!). So maybe this purchase of CPI by BB has something to do the rising popularity of antique cars--??
In my opinion, OCPG values are higher than I have ever been able to obtain when selling an old car, and higher than I have been willing to pay when buying one. So maybe a guide that is lower is needed-- but if it's a LOT lower, maybe not.
There used to be a guy on this list named Norm who was fond of saying "the market determines value." We always used to debate that, but I would agree with him to this extent: a price guide is only a guide, it doesn't determine value. The negotiation between two people, the buyer & seller, does that. Any guide is only a starting point.
If someone thinks one guide is better than another you might ask yourself why. Is there an advantage one guide gives to a particular group?
Mark M
On Tuesday, December 14, 2004, at 06:33 AM, Greg and Russell wrote:
Gee, I always thought the prices in those guides (especially Old Cars Price Guide) were determined (at least in part) on what cars have sold for at auctions around the country. I am not necessarily referring to the infamous Barrett-Jackson auction but to lesser auctions whose results are published in Old Cars Weekly. I remember trying to buy another make about a year ago from a fellow in CA. He had it priced a little too high for the car's condition and I was able to talk him down about $1,100-$1,200. The selling price was more in line with the cars condition and corresponded with the price in Old Cars Price Guide for a car in that condition. A car in the same condition in CPI was a lot lower and there was no way that old geezer was going to part with that rare car for what CPI stated it was worth.
The fellow on the other list who thinks CPI is more in line with reality than OCPG stated the values in CPI are based on the black book values. I recently had two of my cars in my collection professionally appraised and the appraiser used OCPG in establishing the value once he was able to determine the cars conditions. Is OCPG more widely used and accepted (generally speaking) than other guides? I understand some cars are so rare or unusual that no guide will have a value that is accurate. But for a domestic car that was not low production (for example, say a '65 Buick LeSabre 4dht), would the OCPG be the best guide to consult? The CPI values are sooooooooo low as compared to the OCPG values.
Greg McDonnell
----- Original Message ----- From: "H B" <HBFromTN@xxxxxxxxx> To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 6:01 AM Subject: Re: IML: Price guides
Hello, I believe that even the old car price guide is low on lots of cars.I buy and sell them and I throw the price guide out on alot of classics and mopars.alot of times We are getting twice what the price guide says. Helen 61 Green Imperial
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