reviving long-sitting/stuck engines
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reviving long-sitting/stuck engines



Very interesting post, but I would have to point out that there is a flaw. The 
part about not pushing the piston "up into the rusty cylinder" will only work 
if only one piston is in a rusty cylinder. In a V-8 engine (as well as any 
other type with more than one cylinder) while one piston is moving in a 
downward motion, others will be moving in an upward motion. This will ruin the 
rings of the upward moving pistons causing the need for a rebuild.

I am as much in favor of making something work with as little effort as 
possible as the next guy. There is a point of diminishing returns, though. From 
the sound of the condition of the '58 Imperial engine, it is likely that there 
is no hope short of a rebuild. A Model T Ford is a toy compared to the 
precision and engineering involved in a 392 Chrysler Hemispherical  Combustion 
V-8.  

Paul

In a message dated 5/3/2004 11:55:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
imperialist1960@xxxxxxxxx writes:

> Your dream of turning the engine over but having it stuck is probably coming 
>from something that often gets overlooked by people, open valves during 
>storage.
>  
> I just got a Model T that had been under a car-port here in California.  
>Someone had removed the #2 sparkplug long ago, and had removed the hood and 
>everything, leaving it exposed to the air.  No direct water ever got on it, 
>but that's not good at all because there's water in the air and it condenses n 
>anything it can when temperatures change.
>   
> This particular engine that was in the car was stuck.
>  
> I removed the head.  
>  
> This is important: 
>  
> Cylinder #2, which had been open was just fine.  #3 was rusted with bright 
>orange rust.  There was a large dead insect on top of the piston.  It had its 
>spark plug still in and had been in a closed engine the whole time since being 
>parked in 1972.  The water galleries and head gasket were fine with no 
>leakage.  How did this come about?  
>  
> I have the engine freed up now and did not have to rebuild it, so please read 
>on, and this applies to most any car engine.
>  
> Here's the deal:  When you park a car, there is unconditionally one or more 
>valves open no matter where the crank stops.  The car in my case had been 
>parked in 1972 and not touched since.  With an exhaust valve open slightly 
>where it landed, it was exposed to the outside air via the exhast manifold and 
>exhaust pipe. 
>   
> There were large thin flakes from the wall of the cylinder raised off of the 
>walls and it was very ugly.  
>  
> If you store a car, it is best to turn it over, even without starting it, 
>once a month so that the valves are operated and the cylinder exposed to air 
>gets changed.
>  
> Remedy:  Got a car that's been sitting for a decade or more?  ALWAYS remove 
>the heads and inspect.  No Matter What!  You will save yourself a rebuild 
>nearly every time.    
>  
> Once the heads are off, use a screwdriver to scrape at whatever rust is in 
>there.  Don't gouge the cylinder walls, but just go for the scale and loose 
>stuff.  Vacuum out.  Now go back in with a rag wrapped around the screwdriver 
>and try to be a little more aggressive.  
>  
> After that's as clean as its going to get, drop marvel mystery oil in and 
>walk away for 24 hours, repeating at least once.  Put in enough to create a 
>standing pool that will hopefully penetrate and soak in.  It works even better 
>if the top of the piston is parallel to the ground, but that's tough in a V8 
>without removing the engine.
>  
> If the rust is particularly bad, and you think that pouring liquid in will 
>create a standing pool, you can use household vinegar which will dissolve the 
>rust in 48 hours.  You'll have to drop the oil pan to get the vinegar out, but 
>you want to skip removing the block from the car, right?  Suck out vinegar 
>after 48 hours of refilling it so that it is immersed and soaking and replace 
>vinegar with Marvel oil as described above.
>  
> You now have a rusted cylinder that hopefully has oily rust or dissolved oily 
>rust, you now need to try to move the crank.  Guess which way you want to 
>turn?  The piston must move down its bore, irrespective of the normal rotation 
>of the engine - reversing the spin is OK.  NEVER push the piston up the 
>cylinder.  You will not be able to tell which direction of rotation is up with 
>the head on, so those have to come off for this reason alone, but you have to 
>do the cleanout first, so it's all related. 
>  
> There will be all sorts of junk on the cylinder wall.  If you try to start 
>the car, and the piston gets jammed upwards though a hole that's too small due 
>to rust, you'll scrape all the rust off the wall with the rings.  The rings 
>will be destroyed, and you'll have a smokescreen of oil pouring out the pipe 
>brcause the rings are no longer sealing or have shattered into fragments or 
>whatever.  
>  
> Dragging the piston down will hopefully mean that the rings are traversing 
>cleaner walls that were not exposed to air and water (sealed off by rings) and 
>won't be damaged.  
>  
> Take the piston to bottom and leave it there.  Take a rag and clean out the 
>cylinder, getting what's left dry for inspection.  Let's assume that there are 
>no giant pits or holes or whatever that would be a deal-breaker.  Use moderate 
>grit sandpaper or emerycloth and sand the walls of the cylinder so that they 
>are approximately smooth with no major irregularities.  Get a cylinder hone, 
>the sort with 3 long thin vertical stones and a flex driveshaft (not the 
>bristle-brush type) and use a medium or fine stone.  I like fine with lots 
>more grinding time personally.  
>  
> Make certain that as you spin the hone, that you move it up and down 
>vigorously so that the scores that you're honing into the cylinder wall are 
>not horizontal and in the same plane as the top of the block or parallel to 
>the piston rings.  
>  
> On mine, it took maybe 5 minutes of alternating between honing and using 
>compressed air to blow dust out before I wound up with a semi-smooth surface.  
>I don't know how fast a power drill spins, but if it spins at 1000 RPM, then 
>that was maybe 3000 revolutions of honing.  You'll never do that by hand, so 
>get a hone to do this job.  Vacuum out and clean cylinder with a rag.
>  
> Once done, I drop more marvel oil in, making sure to get all the way around 
>the piston, especially at the top.  Wipe it all over the cylinder wall.
>  
> Crank the engine now by hand.  You've already lubed the other pistons, right? 
> Pull the cylinder(s) that you've been working on to top-dead-center.  You'll 
>now have a rusty piston right up on top where you can get to it.  Cover all 
>exposed parts that like to be kept clean.  Wire wheel that guy and clean it 
>off.  Shop vac off the top.  repeat for other piston tops.  Wipe clean and 
>drizzle more lubricant into the crack where the rings are.  I use a giant 
>syringe for that, but you can use a turkey baster or whatever.
>  
> Crank the engine over by hand and loosen it through motion.  Keep the 
>cylinder walls wet with oil.  When you get it moving freely, you're almost 
>home.  Drop the pan if you feel it needed.  Clean and reinstall.  Put in fresh 
>oil.  I like thicker stuff like 20/50.  Reinstall the heads without the 
>valvetrain and the plugs off.  Torque to spec.  Now that this is all done, you 
>can crank the engine with the starter and spin it faster and see what happens. 
> You should have a free-moving engine that is ready to be reassembled and run. 
> 
>  
> You have had a chance to have the heads off and have wire-wheeled them (I 
>hope), so the combustion chambers and everything else is clean, right?  
>Rewire/reinstall the plugs and start her up.  Chances are that the thing will 
>run.  There may be some blow-by on that cylinder if the rings are not sealing 
>properly, but it may improve with several miles of use, so don't be too 
>concerned about a little oil vapor coming out the rear of the car.  Some of 
>that will be the oil that's in the rings and all.
>  
> You may get the heads off and realize the engine' is dead frozen and rusted 
>solid, but I would bet against it.  I would also bet against the engine being 
>siezed on the bottom end, unless your car had an oil pump problem (unlikely), 
>or was started without any water in the cooling system, which sould cause lots 
>of bad things, including pistons and block getting swollen together from heat.
>  
> Hope that helps.  It's a bunch of seemingly extra work as opposed to just 
>starting the car up and driving it as one would wish, but this could make a 
>huge difference in how your engine works over the long run, and could allow 
>you to skip a rebuild for awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> Kenyon Wills          
> San Lorenzo/SF Bay Area 
>  
> 1960 Chrysler Imperial 
>LeBaron>http://imperialclub.com/Yr/1960/Kenyon/Page01.htm
>  
> 1964 Chrysler Crown Imperial>http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1964/Kenyon64/
>  
> 1973 Chrysler Imperial  
> LeBaron>http://imperialclub.com/Yr/1973/Wills/index.htm
>  



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