Dear Chris,
Thanks for that clarification. I thought the terms "A body," etc. were
something that magazine writers or enthusiasts came up with because I
personally have never seen any reference to these terms in any factory
issued literature. But I assume you are right. Also, in one of my
books, forget which one, I thought I had seen "C = Chrysler," but maybe
that is just coincidence, since, like you say, a Dodge is also a C.
ANYWAY . . . you say one thing that I'm not too sure about. Yes,
Imperial was both a brand and a carline, but aren't there different
models within the Imperial carline?
Wouldn't the LeBaron and Crown be considered different models? Yes,
they are different trim levels too, but they have different names on
'em . . . I've always thought I had an Imperial (carline/brand) Crown
(model) convertible (bodystyle). Yes? No?
Thoughtful people want to know. :)
MM
On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 10:17 PM, Christopher Hoffman wrote:
> Since you mentioned my name...
>
> A "carline" exists within a brand. It is also known as a model series.
> For
> example, Chrysler Newport is a carline. Within a carline there are
> usually a
> number of trim levels, such as Newport (base) and Newport Custom. New
> Yorker
> is generally considered a separate carline from Newport. Imperial was
> both a
> brand and a carline because there were no other models within the
> Imperial
> brand (during the years that Imperial was its own brand, or make, or
> marque). For Imperial, the distinction between carline, model and trim
> level
> is a bit blurry. (Then again, so is "New Yorker Brougham" for 1975-77,
> since
> all NYers were Broughams... officially, it is a three-word model name
> with
> no trim level. My '78 Salon would be the only NYB trim level ever
> offered...
> St Regis was just an option package... essentially a vinyl roof
> treatment,
> not a trim level.)
>
> A body designation indicates the platform upon which a model or
> carline (or
> several carlines) was built. The C in C-body does not stand for
> Chrysler, it
> was simply the largest Chrysler Corporation platform (fullsize Dodge
> and
> Plymouth, too), with the B-body for the midsize (Charger, Coronet,
> Satellite, Belvedere, Road Runner, Cordoba, Magnum, etc.), and the
> A-body
> compact (Dart, Valiant, Barracudas through 1969, Demon and Duster). By
> the
> way, the C in the VIN only began in MY1965.
>
> That C-body and Chrysler begin with the same letter is coincidental.
> After
> all, Dodges were also C-bodies (though they had D VINs), as were
> Plymouths
> (and they had P VINs). The fullsize cars' VINs, however, DID represent
> their
> make, a holdover from when there was only one size of Dodge, Plymouth
> or
> Chrysler (up through '59). Most of the other Chrysler VIN series
> similarly
> did not match the first initial of their names. (For example, Valiant
> was
> launched as a separate make--not as a Plymouth--in 1960, but Valiant
> VINs
> didn't start with V until 1964, by which time they were badged and
> marketed
> as models within the Plymouth line.)
>
> To address Mark's point, the body designations were indeed from
> Chrysler,
> not affixed after the fact by enthusiasts, but they were used only
> internally, and in an age where such information rarely became part of
> the
> consumer's vernacular. Chrysler still does this, although they tend to
> give
> an all-new platform generation a new series designation. For example,
> the
> original cab-forward Dodge Intrepid, Eagle Vision, and Chrysler
> Concorde and
> LHS were the LH platform. The current ones are the LX, and I honestly
> cannot
> remember what the new RWD 2005 300-Series (yes, that's officially the
> name,
> with "300" base, "300 Touring" and "300C" being the trim levels in
> ascending
> order) and Magnum (wagon only but expect a sedan to follow soon after
> when
> the sales figures don't pan out) are...
>
> GM did the same thing, starting in the 1940s or even earlier, but in
> reverse
> order. Cadillacs, top-line Buicks and top-line Oldsmobiles used the
> A-body.
> Chevys, Pontiacs and low-line Buicks and Oldses used the B-body. By the
> 1970s, they even made hybrids: Bonnevilles and Grand Villes used the
> B-body
> wheelbase but an A-body roofline. But this is not a GM list, so enough
> about
> that!
>
> As for VINs, it was not until the standardized 17-digit VINs were
> introduced
> in 1980-81 that any manufacturer's VINs became uniform across the
> industry.
> In this system, the first digit indicates the country of manufacture
> (1=US,
> 2=Canada, 3=Mexico, W=Germany, etc.), and the 2nd and 3rd indicate the
> automaker. But prior to this system, every automaker used their own
> system.
>
> Many all-Mopar shows tend to lump all fullsize models under C-body,
> including pre-'67 Imperials, even though they did not share their
> platform
> with the Chryslers, Plymouths and Dodges from 1957 through 1966. It's a
> sloppy error, again, probably of convenience. Many shows do separate
> the
> Imperials, of course.
>
> Anyway, that's the world's longest answer to a question about one
> letter.
>
> C ya!
>
> Chris in LA
> 67 Crown (C-body, Y VIN)
> 78 NYB Salon (C-body, C VIN)
>
>
> Mark McDonald (tomswift@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:
>
>> I think Chris Hoffman could probably explain the breakdown better than
>> I as to what precisely "carline" means.
>>
>> But-- if you go to a show (at least this is true of all the ones I've
>> been to)(all two)-- an Imperial is classified as a "C body," like it
>> or
>> not.
>>
>> But again, the "C" in "C body" stands for "Chrysler" -- meaning the
>> carline. They didn't use "I" for "Imperial" presumably because an "I"
>> can be confused with a "1."
>
>
>
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