RE: IML: water pump pulley diameter?
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RE: IML: water pump pulley diameter?
- From: sosmi@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:22:16 +0000
Ken, your correct, in the fact that the coolant, has to spend a certain amount of time in the radiator to loose the heat gained from the engine.And when all components are functioning correctly, it works.However, some components, whether, the t-stat, radiator,water pump(rare)or internal engine problems, will create an over-heat situation.The first thing everyone wants to do, is throw the t-stat away. this will usually work at low speeds, but on the high-way, the engine will heat up and possibly over heat.Thats because the cooling water, is flowing through the radiator too fast, and can't shed the heat fast enough.The other thing that has the same effects, is a 160 t-stat, most cooling systems can't even do that temp.I've found the 180 to work best, assuming your cooling system is up to snuff.The fact that the A/C water pump impeller,is smaller is off-set by the fact that its turning faster,(smaller pulley) than a non A/C pump. At the same time, t
he A/C cars have, a larger radiator, larger fan, with more blades a thermo-activated clutch, and a fan shroud. I think, the smaller pulley on the water pump, resulting in higher fan speed was done for air flow through the radiator, and condenser,it was most important, and the water pump impeller was adjusted accordingly.Did I miss something? ya'll have a nice day, Dave
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ken Lang" <ken@xxxxxxxxxxx>
I might be jumping into this one a bit late. But I recall back when I had a 68 New Yorker (440) with AC that the water pump impeller was different for AC models verses non-AC models. I?m sure it had to do with the flow rating. Oddly enough the one for AC models had a smaller diameter impeller.
That got me to thinking about the theory behind what Chrysler engineers were doing. All I could figure was that if you slow down the flow rate it has more time to spend in the radiator where it can remove the maximum amount of heat. If the radiator is sized properly it can remove more heat than the engine can create in the same amount of time. Then it becomes the job of the thermostat to constantly vary the opening and control the flow rate to the radiator.
I?ve seen where people have installed high-flow water pumps to deal with overheating issues only to make it worse. Coolant must spend enough time in the radiator so it can remove the heat. Faster water flow doesn?t usually fix overheating issues. IMHO
Ken
67 Crown 4 Dr Ht
From: mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Daniel Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:15 PM
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: IML: water pump pulley diameter?
Oooops... I've got it now. Smaller pulley = faster rotation = more water volume = cooler water for AC. That would then mean that I should NOT use this big pulley with AC. Now I'll need to find the correct pulley.
Anyone out there have a chance to measure the diameter of an AC, '67, 440cid, from an Imperial?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: IML: water pump pulley diameter?
Dan, thats smaller pulley On A/C, I'd bet the 65-68 guys have the same thing, Dan Collins where are you?, I think he has a 67. Anyway, I think its 5 o'clock someware. Ya'll have a nice day, Dave.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx
Aha! A smaller pulley on the non-AC water pump - that makes sense. Thanks for the "theory" behind the engineering.
I still need someone to confirm the water pump pulley diameter on the AC engine, then I can make a decision, to grind, or not to grind.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: sosmi@xxxxxxxxxxx
Dan, the specs I quoted, are from the 69 Plymouth manual, it's just about the oldest manual I have left, after the 04 hurricanes, I lost from 68 to nearly 58, but your question of, Why a smaller pump? Because the pump is turning faster with the smaller pulley, they reduced the impeller size, to prevent pump cavitation, but still maintain sufficient water flow. I still think the pulley was, in the 5+or - range. Dave
-------------- Original message --------------
From: therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx
Oh boy, sometimes engineering just doesn't make sense!
The water pump pulley is definitely towards the front. With a 1/16" clearance between it and the crank pulley, I would have to remove the wp pulley to change the power steering belt - that's OK with me.
One would think that having AC would require better cooling. The FSM confirms a non AC water pump with 4.38" diam. - 10 vanes, and an AC water pump with 3.67" diam. - 6 vanes. Why, oh why, would you have a smaller, fewer vaned water pump on a car with AC?
I have a new water pump sitting here that I was planning on installing (came with the car). It is 4" diam. - 8 vanes. One would assume that will be OK, no?
Back to the water pump pulley diameter question - anyone have a '67 that they could measure that pulley? Thanks for the help.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: sosmi@xxxxxxxxxxx
Dan, the smaller diameter pulley does turn faster, however the wp impeller for a/c cars are smaller diameter, and have less blades. A/C pump 3.5"- 6 vanes, NON A/C 4.38"- 8 vanes, and if I can recall, the PS pump belt is first to go on . If the WP pulley is too close to the crank pulley, you'll have to remove it to change belts? Somebody with a 67 could tell. Dave.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx
The grind it down idea will work (and I already came up with that "dumb idea"), if I need to go that route. I just want to confirm that a 6 & 1/2" diameter is correct. Smaller diameter would turn the water pump faster. With AC, I want to be sure of the measurements.
Other Dave - it is a single pulley, with an idler/tensioner pulley off on the passenger's side.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dave Wilker" <wilkerbeast01@xxxxxxxxxxx>
One idea (probably a dumb one) is to take your pretty new pulley to a machine shop and ask them to shave it down a bit for clearance. It may make a difference if your pulleys are not perfectly aligned (It might be easier to jump off) but like I said, it is an option. I have seen a few engines that have very little clearance between the pulleys, way less than the thickness of the belt, for instance.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: IML: water pump pulley diameter?
What is the exact outer diameter of the water pump pulley for a '67 Imperial, 440cid, with AC, single belt?
I spent $80 (too much!) for a new aluminum one (way too pretty!), that barely doesn't fit. Parts man said it was 6 & 1/2" diameter - it actually measures 6 & 11/16". I think 6 & 1/2" would fit with a clearance on the crank pulley of 1/16"
Do those measurements make sense? Is there really only 1/16" clearance between the crank pulley & the water pump pulley? Is 6 & 1/2" the correct diameter for the water pump pulley on this engine?
Thanks in advamce for any insight offered.
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