If you do not copy this message from Patrick for future reference, you
will be searching for it when you need to have your car repaired after an
accident. I sold claims software to large insurance companies for a
large part of my career. Insurance companies are run by people that have
an invisible tattoo, "I always play it safe.", on their foreheads. My
ability to see this tattoo was the reason for my success in selling this
software. The minute you have an accident, if you can, start writing.
Take notes that details every pain, all financial activity, and all
communications. Get a recorder for phone calls. At the beginning of
each telephone conversation, tell the insurance person that this call is
being recorded for your mutual protection, and that you hope he will do
the same. Some companies, USAA and Cincinnati Insurance, come to mind,
will settle the claim in a very reasonable, professional manner. Others,
those on TV who sell on price, appear to me to sell paper policies, not
true insurance.
A Mopar related story: The car, an 89 Shelby CSX (1/14 with wide tires
and Recaro's) with 12K miles on it. I am at the airport picking up a
customer, and I hear on the radio that there had been an accident at an
intersection between my home and my son's high school, I was very glad my
son was not involved because he had gone to school to run with the cross
country team. But wait, he had overslept. About 5 minutes later, my
cell phone rings, and it was my son calling from a pay phone. He had
been parked at a light and was hit from behind and pushed into the car in
front of him. No injury, but a total, rebuildable loss. I posted to the
Shelby Dodge and Turbo Dodge to see if anyone was insured by USAA. I
found 3 89 CSX's insured by USAA. When the adjuster called, I gave her
my information and suggested she use this information for reference as
she developed her value estimate. I also told her I wanted the car and
realized it would have little resale value, if I repaired it, due to the
low resale value of a car with a Salvage title. Her first offer was
reasonable, about what I had expected and wanted, and I accepted it. The
whole thing was handled in less than an hour total on my part. Someone
on the list now owns the car and will vouch for the fact that I spared no
expense in having it repaired. He bought it from someone to whom I had
sold it.
I will not get into problems I had solving claims with Farmers and GEICO,
but my little black book, and recorded phone calls put them on the
trailer before the race had begun. In this case, I even got them to pay
for the notebook in which I was recording all of the information and the
pen with which I was recording it.
Henry's 3 points to getting the most out of an insurance claim:
1. Document Document Document Document Document Summarize, but save all
documentation.
2. Being ugly never wins. Be polite and business like. Say enough
about options to make the claims adjuster aware you know them.
3. Realize that the better case you make to an adjuster, the better case
he can make to close the claim. You are dealing with a person who has
the invisible tattoo. Make his decision a safe, fair one in your favor.
Thanks again, Patrick.
Henry
pnkmoore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I did auto defense work for insurance companies for years in my law
practice, and still do some. Representing the "enemy," I have some
thoughts that may be of help to you. I'll start be saying that Ray and
Kenyon both had very correct advice. There are a few additional things
to keep in mind:
Insurers differ, so there's a bit of the luck of the draw as to how
you're going to be dealt with. Of course, they'll all in the business
of giving away as few dollars as possible, so you'd best prepare
yourself for the low-ball offer from an unsympathetic adjuster who will
maintain ignorance (fiegned or real, the former being more likely) as to
the value of the car. They do this as a matter of course, as some
appreciable number of claimants will take whatever is offered first
without objection.
Be prepared to be inconvenienced and to have to create your own evidence
of value. They won't do it for you, and be prepared the entire process
to take some time. The guy who hit you is the culprit here, so keep
that in mind if the insurer treats you like an inconvenience. This has
been foisted upon you by a criminal: you're not the bad guy.
Be prepared also to have to bring the matter to small claims court, this
given the fact that you're valuing an unual car that their estimating
systems won't easily categorize. I'm the magistrate judge for the local
city court, and have experience (in small Southern town terminology
anyway, but the outcome is the same). You live in Brooklyn, I think you
said, so there's little doubt that a small claims system exists within
the City or County government that has more than enough dollar
jurisdiction (probably a $25K maximum) to help you, and those systems
are usually "non-lawyer" friendly to some degree, meaning a thinking man
of the general public shouldn't have too much trouble traversing the
procedures necessary to get the matter properly lodged. The clerks are
supposed to supply you with sufficient instructions, probably in the
form of printed material, to permit you access to the court.
This is important, regardless of whether you plan to take the claim to
court: If the you can get the police report on the DWI findings,
meaning a blood alcohol level or if the guy pleads guilty to DWI, most
states have double damage laws in favor of claimants such as yourself,
though not always for property damage claims only. I wouldn't hesitate
to let the adjuster know you're looking into that possibility, the
result being that they'll want to get rid of your claim sooner and may
throw more money at it. The drunk guy's policy may exclude that type of
coverage, but be assured it will help your claim be one they don't like.
In the same vien, be aware that most states require insurance companies
to pay property damage claims within thirty days of receiving "full
proof of loss." Accordingly, the thing to do there is to provide them
up front with good evidence of value, the best numbers you can find
(Ebay, Hemmings, whatever) AND MAKE A SPECIFIC DEMAND! The rule there is
to make your first demand higher than you're willing to take (i.e. you
think it's worth $5k, demand $10k first). When you deliver the demand,
which you need to make in writing, also make them aware that you
consider this adequate proof of loss, that they have 30 days to pay you
the demanded amount, and close your note (politely!) with the fact that
if you can't come to an agreement, your next trip is to the courthouse.
Adjusters hate "pro-se" plaintiffs in the courthouse, meaning people who
file suit without the benefit of an attorney. Judges often end up
helping pro-se plaintiffs more than a represented plaintiff.
Overall, get your best valuation evidence, be polite, prepared and
unruffled. They can pressure you all they want, but they can't make you
sign anything on the spot. Take your time, subject to the fact that
your state will impose a statute of limitations, or "prescrption" period
on the claim. The minimum is one year. Plainly, if you get paper in
front of them with valuation and keep those phone calls and letters
coming, you'll be in a position to settle before the statute runs out.
If you hear: "We don't use Ebay for valuation" The answer to that is
"Okay, but I think the Judge might. Let's find out!"
Salvage: Given your description of damage, I suspect that the cost of
repair will far exceed the cost of replacement/actual cash value. The
drunk guy is only obligated to pay the lesser of those two numbers. I
know that seems unfair, particularly since this is your dad's car, but
that's what the law tolerates. Get body shop damages anyway, as the
high numbers will enhance your claim. So will the fact that this was
your Dad's car and you are justified in associating higher value to it.
Note that the insurance company will have to do a body repair estimate
too, and you might find it to be pretty accurate when compared to what
you get from a body shop. Be prepared too for the body shop to ask "you
want an estimate for us to really fix it, or for an insrance company?"
The two totals may vary greatly! They may charge for the estimate
(unless you know the guy). I don't know what your local economy
tolerates so I'm trying to guess at all possibilties. Since your car is
on the street and given your zip code, keeping salvage may be
impractical. If you want it, don't expect to pay more than a few
hundred dollars.
One last trick, one that I've used to my advantage in several cases:
Call a bank or go to a auto finance website (and if the insurer is huge
enough to offer auto financing, call them! USAA, for instance, owns a
bank and offers financing to their insureds, even on classic cars) and
find out how much the bank would secure the make and model Imperial if
you were financing it's purchase. I have used this method with powerful
results against insurance adjusters who complain that there was no way
to value an old car, or that an old car is only worth $500. My response
was "Well, let me help you out. Here's Bank of America's website
printout for classic car financing, and they'll secure the same make and
model car for $10,000 in the condition mine was in. Get out your
checkbook!"
Sorry this was so long, but I got a little carried away. I hope it
helps. Good luck.
Patrick
Southeast Louisiana
'58 Southampton project car
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCall" <Rob_Mopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: IML:drunk people & insurance claims
The only thing I can add to what Kenyon said is to insist that you do
not
want the car totaled, you want the money for repairs. Even if you do
decide
later that the car is too far gone to repair, it's your call, not his
insurance company's. With the age of the car, they may not argue. You
might not be able to get all the money necessary to repair the car, but
it
would be something to work with.
Rob McCall
'67 LeBaron
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