Re: IML: Paint questions

[Kenyon Wills <imperialist1960@xxxxxxxxx>]

I went with laquer, which is technically off-limits in california.  Fortunately, it is allowed for painting boats, and that's what I'm painting, so was able to get some.  I am doing it myself and already did a test-spray on the Model T and some garbage cans.  Need to finish another project and I'll be on to final sanding of the hood and making a paint booth out of the carport.

 

Laquer is a fading paint technology that only the older guys seem comfortable with.  It is a single-stage paint, meaning that the pigment is in the paint and you spray it and that's all.  There are other single stage paints that are not laquer - enamel and urethane are two, I think (but didn't research those too much, as I knew what I wanted).

 

Clear coat is 2 stage, meaning that you spray color on the car and then put clear over it to make it shine.

 

Clearcoat favors the refinishing industry as its so easy to work with, will allow corrections to mistakes more, and can be relatively cheap, allowing greater mark-up/profit potential.  Also, you can have 100 gallons of clear on hand and a relatively small volume of color, so it's easier on inventory to buy little batches of color, using your clear with it rather than larger batches of color that are custom each time.

 

 

Your car originally had a single stage.  I suggest single stage for looks if you have an eye for "authenticity".  Your car obvioulsy won't be as authentic on its second paint-job, but the question drives at how close you want it to come.  Clear coat really bothers me personally, and seems gaudy and showy.  That's to my eye, of course, and some people like that and it's your car.  I'm not much for the "wet look" that some tire dressing products produce, so that's sorta what I'm talking about in paint.  Too much gloss can seem too loud in its appearance.  Old cars generally don't sparkle like diamonds unless they're over-restored.  They can get away with gleaming, but not sparkling as far as I'm concerned.

 

The laquer, by comparison to clear coat looks hard and brilliant and reflective where the clear coat looks glossy and deep and wet.  The laquer just does not look "deep" as the optical reflection of shine happens completely on the surface of the polished paint, as opposed to clear, where the light goes through a layer of clear before reflecting.

 

In my industry, we work with first surface mirrors and rear surface mirrors.  The glass in your bathroom vanity has the mirrored surface on the back of the glass.  If you put your finger up to the glass, your finger will not "touch" its reflection since there is glass in between, and there is diffraftction going on when the light is "bent" as it passes though the glass.  Put a stick into water and it will appear to make an angled bend because the light passing though the denser medium (water) gets bent. 

 

This happens with clearcoat too, as the light must travel though the clear shell to the color and back out again.  Not so with single stage that has pigment in it and is polished flat and is merely reflective and not doing any transmission of light through it before returning it to your eye, as your car and other older cars did when new.  The question is: how deep and glossy do you want to get?  Is glossier and wetter OK, or will you notice.  If you notice, do you care? 

 

I'm not a paint scientist, by the way - I'm trying to explain a gut feeling that I have about this stuff, so please don't look at the trees, but the forest on this description.

 

If I were doing a chevvy and it were obviously not stock but was to be a darned nice car, choosing my own color instead of going factory, I'd get the glossiest that I could and take pride in a nice paint job.  I'd do single stage otherwise, but that's me.  I'm a retro-grouch and like things original.  Ask me how I feel about bias-ply's sometime....

 

The laquer is also more tolerant of touch-up and spot repairs later, and this favors you if you DIY because you can deal with anything that comes up right in your own garage.   

 

I am planning on 4-5 coats if I can.  You can get away with less on clear coat.

 

Clear coat will turn white in the channel of a scratch.  If you miss with your door-key, the resulting scratch will be white until you rub the scratch out.  This can be a big issue if you go to a dark color, especially black.  I found it most annoying on the late-model car that I had with this, but it's possible that my car had a cheap product applied to make it sellable to me, so that's an item to ask your paint man about if you go that way.

 

 

 

Don, I think that you're in CA.  If so, and you want to save some money, I'd be willing to help you prep and paint your car at my house.  You'd want to remove the trim and so forth, but could drive it here with the bumpers, lights, and glass still in.  I have all the tools and a paint guy that sells me laquer (or whatever you want) for my "boating" activities.  You of course don't benefit from having paid someone, which is nice when it comes time to cast blame for mistakes, but I think that I'll be out less than $1000 in materials (prep included) when I'm done with my car, and you'd have a new skill that's a renewable resource.  That's a standing offer for the club, but you have to buy me pizza.

 

Of course dropping the car off at a place and paying them sure is a lot easier.

 

 

There is much more about how to do it yourself on Kerry's pages that were posted to the website.  If you have not read these, they are what pushed me over from paying to DIY.  This stuf isn't hard.  It just takes some experience, and that's not really hard to get - you just have to jump in and do it, as with many other things mechanical. 

 

 

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Body/BodyandPaint/index.htm

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Body/Painting101/index.htm

 

Elijah, if you're reading this, I'd be curious to hear how your paint job has held now that we're allmost 4 years out.....

 

-Kenyon

DON SAVARD <don_savard@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Subject: Paint questions

Hi all,

  My 67 Sedan(post) is currently in the body shop for a total repaint. Have 2 questions:

 

   Fender tag code reads BB1. Looked it up and it says that BB is Formal Black. What does the 1 in BB1 stand for?

 

 Secondly- What should I ask for in repaint? How many coats is typical and how many coats should I ask for?  More coats=====better paint quality/shine/depth??/

And what kind of paint is good/not as good?  Clear coat?

  Thanks for all your help

  Don Savard

  66 Crown Coupe

  67 4 door post Sedan

  67 Le Baron (parts car)

  68 Imperial Crown