Suicide doors / Engel designs

["Greg and Russell" <65luxuryliner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

 Well said Mark!  And of course, being the very proud owner of one of Mr.
Engel's designs ('65 Crown convertible), I think he did an excellent job of
'imitating' the immensely popular 'suicide door' Lincoln he helped create.
I personally like the clean look of those Lincolns and was just saying to
Russell the other day, I wish I had one from '61 thru '63 (those still had
the dual cowled dash)!

Actually when you take a look at the Imperial parked next to the Lincoln
('64 thru '66),at first glance they appear similar.  But (in my humble
opinion) the Imperial is more stylish and less boxy.  The 'spare tire hump'
in the deck lid adds a tremendous amount of interest to an otherwise flat,
boring piece of sheet metal.  The tempered glass covered headlights were
also a styling exclusive!  Both cars were good looking but I think the
Imperial has the edge in the styling department.   But you've got to give
credit to Ford Motor Company for coming up with the original, slab sided,
'downsized, understatedly elegant look to begin with.  The '61 Lincolns were
a huge breath of fresh air as far as automotive styling was concerned and
they were hot selling cars as well.  Who could blame Engel for 'borrowing
some of his styling cues?  I mean, if you're going to emulate something, it
makes sense that something should be good looking and successful!

Greg McDonnell
Mobile, AL
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <tomswift@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Suicide doors / Engel designs


> Hugh,
>
> Normally I agree with you but I have to take issue with you on this one!
>
> A designer as talented as Elwood Engel almost certainly could have come up
with a
> totally different design for the '64-68 Imperials if he chose to-- or if
his corporate bosses
> wanted him to.  I find the notion that he simply fell back on his work for
Ford and "couldn't
> think of anything better" when he came to Chrysler an implausible theory.
>
> I think he was stolen, if you will, from Ford, precisely because Chrysler
leadership
> wanted to take their Imperial in a direction similar to what Engel had
already done for
> Lincoln, and who better to take them there than the very man who created
the look?  It
> was a way of hurting Ford by taking one of their top men and also updating
your look at
> the same time.
>
> Second, the resemblance to Lincoln was, in my opinion, no accident.  I
don't like this
> trend, but it is common practice in the auto industry to copy the look of
your competition.
> Today you have Japanese luxury cars imitating the styling of BMW and
Mercedes.  The
> perceived leader, or the next one up the ladder, is always copied in an
effort to lure
> buyers from the competitor.
>
> For Imperial, their closest competition was Lincoln.  Conceivably,
Imperial could take
> buyers away from Lincoln and eventually beat Lincoln out of the #2 slot.
It wouldn't make
> sense to copy Cadillac, I believe their thinking went, because Cadillac's
sales figures
> were so far above Imperial's as to be unreachable.  But they could put a
dent in Lincoln,
> so that's who they targeted by imitating their styling.
>
> So I don't think it was an accident or a case of Engel lacking the
imagination; if you look
> at the fuselage cars you can see he was quite capable of coming up with a
totally new
> look-- when he was directed to do so.  I think it was a decision made at
the corporate
> level to take the styling in that direction.
>
> Just my opinion!  :)
>
> Mark M
>
> > From: "Hugh & Therese" <hugtrees@xxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 2004/03/22 Mon PM 01:38:32 EST
> > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: IML: Suicide doors / Engel designs
> >
> I am no Engel fan, and it speaks to a timidity on both his part and that
of Chrysler
> Corporation that his designs for Imperial were so similar to the Lincoln.
While the
> underpinning chassis and engine were pure Mopar, not being able to come up
with
> something different from his work with Ford, is not the mark of genius.
No wonder after
> almost forty years, the casual observer has difficulties.  "My" museum has
a 63 Lincoln
> convertible.  It is an unreliable money pit.  I'd love to unload it, but,
on the other hand, it is
> one of the nicest cars we have and the public seems to enjoy seeing it.
It is a pig on the
> road.  Give me an Imperial any day.
> >
> > Hugh
> >
> >
>
>
>