Re: IML: 1960 Temperature Gauge

[PAUL WENTINK <randalpark@xxxxxxx>]

The middle of the gauge is great!

That is unless at some point in your car's life, the voltage limiter 
seized and overheated the gauges. This would cause them to read low, 
meaning that a pointer in the middle on your gauge would be HOT on a 
correctly calibrated one.

The best thing to do is have the actual temperature checked when the 
car is warmed up and the gauge is where it usually is. Then watch for 
change to determine if your car is running abnormally cold or hot. IMHO 
if your Imperial's coolant isn't running out the overflow while its 
running or after shut down, then you are probably okay.

Paul W.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 5:48 am
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Temperature Gauge


Thanks Paul for your excellent answer (as always!) 
 
To make things clear, what I have done is the following: 
 
I replaced the thermostat that the previous owner has fitted in the 
car, it was 
a 160 degrees one.. 
I guess he has done this due to the hot weather in California. 
 
I always noticed that the temp gauge was reading quite low, just at the 
first mark after the C on the dial. 
Since we have beautiful weather overhere at the moment with brigt 
sunshine, but temperatures at the freezing point the car can't reach a 
proper operating temperature anymore. 
 
I have now fitted the normal thermostat that has the OEM specs of 180 
degrees. Since this one is opening later then the 160 degrees 
thermostat that was fitted previously it is quite logical that the 
needle is climbing higher then before. Question is: what is a normal 
reading on the dial of a 60 Temp gauge? 
 
Right now the needle points exactly at the middle of the dial, sounds 
quite OK to me but it is also the highest reading I ever noticed since 
I owned the car.. 
 
So I am a little concerned, but I guess that my car was always running 
on a too low temperature since the previous owner fitted that 160 
degrees thermostat (which I wasn't aware of since last weekend when I 
decided to have a look at the thermostat..), 
 
Robert 
----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL WENTINK" <randalpark@xxxxxxx> 
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:32 PM 
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Temperature Gauge 
 
The gauges on these cars (1960 through 1963) were never very accurate. 
Adding to this problem, over the years voltage regulator failures have 
often overheated them. The regulators are notorious for burning out and 
pegging the gauges. Usually, they can be saved if the car is 
immediately shut down, but this can happen anyplace, and disconnecting 
the gauges on the fly isn't a simple job. Most of them are just run 
until they get too hot or burn out completely. 
 
The cooling systems on our cars is able to handle just about anything, 
as long as it is properly maintained and in good condition. I am okay 
watching functional gauges for readings that are out of the ordinary. 
The temperature and oil pressure gauges on most of my '60 through '63 
Imperials read low, possibly due to what was explained previously. I 
checked the actual temperature and oil pressure by having the cars 
tested at the shop under normal operating conditions. 
 
If I see the temperature gauge move high, or in the case of oil 
pressure, low I shut it down and check for a problem. This occurred on 
my '62 once after exiting a freeway. The temperature gauge suddenly 
began to climb. Pulling over and checking things, I found a broken 
belt. The car did not reach boiling, and I was able to change the belt 
and resume my trip without trouble or having damaged the engine. 
 
I think that the key here is to get to know your car, and then watch 
and listen for change. That is usually the first sign of trouble. J.C. 
Auto can rebuild and recalibrate the gauges on these cars if you want 
them to read properly. Their contact information is on the OIC we site. 
They do an excellent job. 
 
Paul W. 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: sjak brak <imperial1973@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 2:17 am 
Subject: IML: 1960 temperature gauge, was: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding 
 
 
In my experience from the speedshop, the original Mopar gauges can 
often get very inaccurate over the years. This can have various causes. 
 
 
The only way to correctly check the temperature is to install a 
calibrated gauge and sending unit. This will not affect the originality 
of the car, since you can remove it after comparing the readings from 
the calibrated unit with the one on your dash. 
 
 
On 10/23/07, Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
 
Thanks for sharing this Richard!, 
 
 
Your father is absolutely right, you need to adjust the cam adjusters 
(4 in the front and 2 in the rear) frequently to get a good working 
braking system. 
 
I have adjusted the way you father described it, and I must say I have 
a firm pedal that travel only halfway to the floor! 
 
 
Maybe the other 60 owners, Paul, Tom, Kenyon and Charles can jump in on 
this and tell us how much pedal travel they have? 
 
 
And since we are talking about 1960 Imps here, what is the correct 
reading for the temperature of our cars? 
 
Since the weather is almost freezing cold here, my car doesn't reach 
normal operating temperature. It just passed the Cold mark on the dial 
and thats about it. Since it is a Californian car I thought the former 
owner might have installed another termostat that opens earlier, so I 
checked it and I was right! 
 
 
The previous owner installed a 160 degrees thermostat!, I guess to 
prevent the car from overheating in hot Californian summers. 
 
I now have installed a 180 degrees thermostat (OEM standard 
temperature) and the needle on the gauge goes higher then ever before! 
It now stays exactly in the middle of the dial. 
 
Is this correct? 
 
I have never seen the needle climbed that high before, so I am a little 
worried allthough common sense tells me that the middle of the dial 
sounds quite good... 
 
 
Just curious to know the readings on other 1960 owners temperature 
gauges! 
 
 
Thanks, 
 
 
Robert 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
 
From: richard burgess 
 
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Kenyon Wills ; Larry Blomburg 
 
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:47 PM 
 
Subject: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding 
 
 
 
Hi Folks, 
 
 
After spending countless hours working on the brakes on my '60 Crown 
they are finally working properly. I think we bled them entirely three 
times before getting everything repaired properly. The shop that 
"restored" my chasis did not double flare the brake lines correctly and 
had overtightened the flares at the bronze blocks creating distortion 
and leaks. We ended up replacing all of the lines again and the blocks 
as well, at the front frame and on top of the axle. The IML web site 
was helpful but did not really address the issue of pedal going to the 
floor. See below. Another tip, we elevated our brake bleeding bottle 
on a small step ladder, that really helped keeep the air from returning 
to the cylinders during the bleeding process. After all of this my 
father had this to say: 
 
 
 
For Imperial Club under "Repair" , "Brakes", "Brake Bleeding". 
 
 
The 1960 Imperial and like years brake systems can be perfectly bled 
and the pedal still go to the floor if the brake shoes are not adjusted 
to require minimal movement to brake the drum. The bottom line is 
that with six cylinders to provide fluid too, the master cylinder will 
be at the end of its stroke (to the floor) before the wheel cylinders 
have enough fluid (pressure) to push the shoes tight against the 
drums. Chrysler knew this, as in the Maintenance Manual under "Pedal 
goes to Floor" you (a) check fluid in master cylinder and (b) adjust 
for worn linings . The obvious implication is that it does not take 
much slack at the brake shoes to allow the pedal to go to the floor. 
With the shoes properly adjusted tight against the drum and just 
loosened enough to allow the wheel to turn freely you still will not 
have a firm pedal until you almost reach the floor. That's just the 
way it is. If you want to see this then tighten all the shoes against 
the drums and then see how much pedal you have. You cannot see this by 
pumping the pedal as the strong shoe return springs will push the fluid 
back out of the wheel cylinders faster than you can stroke the master 
cylinder. Adjust the shoes properly and frequently and you can get 
good braking. 
 
 
Richard Burgess 
 
'60 Crown 
 
 
 
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