Re: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding

["Rob van der Es" <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

" I would say that if the pedal travels half way to the floor, its time
to adjust the brakes, or possibly check other work"

Hi Paul,

with regard to your message, would it be a good idea to shorten that rod a 
little? You know, the one that Tom Scott mentioned in his reaction?

Thanks,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "PAUL WENTINK" <randalpark@xxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding


The pedal my '60 Custom has very little travel, but doesn't grab. I can
press it further to apply the brakes harder without locking up the
wheels. Since the car has been in our family since it was new, I have
been familiar with the amount of travel it should have. Also, that was
the first car that I rebuilt the brakes on after my 20 year hiatus, and
I used it's performance as the standard for the others.

I would say that if the pedal travels half way to the floor, its time
to adjust the brakes, or possibly check other work. If I remember
correctly, the FSM recommends a brake adjustment every 1,500 miles. I
also keep track of the amount of pedal required to light the stop
lights. Since they are hydraulically activated, this can possibly be an
indicator of a low fluid level or master cylinder problem.

My '62 had a great deal of pedal travel, until I replaced the front
backing plate assemblies. Everything else had been done. I noticed that
upon adjustment, the pedal was high and firm, but within a few stops,
it would go back to its old ways. No amount of bleeding or adjustment
seemed to correct this. I finally decided that the adjusters were worn
and backing off, so I replaced the backing plates. That seemed to
correct the trouble. I believe the backing plates can be rebuilt, but
so far I have managed to replace them with good used ones.

Keep those brakes working perfectly!

Paul W.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 1:46 am
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding



Thanks for sharing this Richard!,



Your father is absolutely right, you need to adjust the cam adjusters
(4 in the front and 2 in the rear) frequently to get a good working
braking system.

I have adjusted the way you father described it, and I must say I have
a firm pedal that travel only halfway to the floor!



Maybe the other 60 owners, Paul, Tom, Kenyon and Charles can jump in on
this and tell us how much pedal travel they have?



And since we are talking about 1960 Imps here, what is the correct
reading for the temperature of our cars?

Since the weather is almost freezing cold here, my car doesn't reach
normal operating temperature. It just passed the Cold mark on the dial
and thats about it. Since it is a Californian car I thought the former
owner might have installed another termostat that opens earlier, so I
checked it and I was right!



The previous owner installed a 160 degrees thermostat!, I guess to
prevent the car from overheating in hot Californian summers.

I now have installed a 180 degrees thermostat (OEM standard
temperature) and the needle on the gauge goes higher then ever before!
It now stays exactly in the middle of the dial.

Is this correct?

I have never seen the needle climbed that high before, so I am a little
worried allthough common sense tells me that the middle of the dial
sounds quite good...



Just curious to know the readings on other 1960 owners temperature
gauges!



Thanks,



Robert


----- Original Message -----

From: richard burgess

To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Kenyon Wills ; Larry Blomburg

Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 2:47 PM

Subject: IML: 1960 Imperial brake bleeding




Hi Folks,



After spending countless hours working on the brakes on my '60 Crown
they are finally working properly. I think we bled them entirely three
times before getting everything repaired properly. The shop that
"restored" my chasis did not double flare the brake lines correctly and
had overtightened the flares at the bronze blocks creating distortion
and leaks. We ended up replacing all of the lines again and the blocks
as well, at the front frame and on top of the axle. The IML web site
was helpful but did not really address the issue of pedal going to the
floor. See below. Another tip, we elevated our brake bleeding bottle
on a small step ladder, that really helped keeep the air from returning
to the cylinders during the bleeding process. After all of this my
father had this to say:





For Imperial Club under "Repair" , "Brakes", "Brake Bleeding".



The 1960 Imperial and like years brake systems can be perfectly bled
and the pedal still go to the floor if the brake shoes are not adjusted
to require minimal movement to brake the drum. The bottom line is
that with six cylinders to provide fluid too, the master cylinder will
be at the end of its stroke (to the floor) before the wheel cylinders
have enough fluid (pressure) to push the shoes tight against the
drums. Chrysler knew this, as in the Maintenance Manual under "Pedal
goes to Floor" you (a) check fluid in master cylinder and (b) adjust
for worn linings. The obvious implication is that it does not take
much slack at the brake shoes to allow the pedal to go to the floor.
With the shoes properly adjusted tight against the drum and just
loosened enough to allow the wheel to turn freely you still will not
have a firm pedal until you almost reach the floor. That's just the
way it is. If you want to see this then tighten all the shoes against
the drums and then see how much pedal you have. You cannot see this by
pumping the pedal as the strong shoe return springs will push the fluid
back out of the wheel cylinders faster than you can stroke the master
cylinder. Adjust the shoes properly and frequently and you can get
good braking.



Richard Burgess

'60 Crown





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