Re: IML:drunk people & insurance claims

[Mark McDonald <tomswift@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

This is good advice.

I would add three things:

One, if they send you a check for the lowball figure, do not accept it. 
 Send it back.  If you deposit it that will more than likely end the 
matter right there and you'll never get the difference from them.

Do not get a bodyshop involved.  Their loyalty is to whoever pays them, 
not you.

I would be prepared for a fight.  A lot of this is a game of 
bluff-counterbluff, and they are hoping you will believe their bluff 
and give up.  Don't give up!

Mark M


On Sunday, October 8, 2006, at 12:16 PM, <pnkmoore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I did auto defense work for insurance companies for years in my law 
> practice, and still do some.   Representing the "enemy," I have some 
> thoughts that may be of help to you.  I'll start be saying that Ray 
> and Kenyon both had very correct advice.  There are a few additional 
> things to keep in mind:
>
> Insurers differ, so there's a bit of the luck of the draw as to how 
> you're going to be dealt with.  Of course, they'll all in the business 
> of giving away as few dollars as possible, so you'd best prepare 
> yourself for the low-ball offer from an unsympathetic adjuster who 
> will maintain ignorance (fiegned or real, the former being more 
> likely) as to the value of the car. They do this as a matter of 
> course, as some appreciable  number of claimants will take whatever is 
> offered first without objection.
>
> Be prepared to be inconvenienced and to have to create your own 
> evidence of value.  They won't do it for you, and be prepared the 
> entire process to take some time.  The guy who hit you is the culprit 
> here, so keep that in mind if the insurer treats you like an 
> inconvenience.  This has been foisted upon you by a criminal: you're 
> not the bad guy.
>
> Be prepared also to have to bring the matter to small claims court, 
> this given the fact that you're valuing an unual car that their 
> estimating systems won't easily categorize.  I'm the magistrate judge 
> for the local city court, and have experience (in small Southern town 
> terminology anyway, but the outcome is the same).  You live in 
> Brooklyn, I think you said, so there's little doubt that a small 
> claims system exists within the City or County government that has 
> more than enough dollar jurisdiction (probably a $25K maximum) to help 
> you, and those systems are usually "non-lawyer" friendly to some 
> degree, meaning a thinking man of the general public shouldn't have 
> too much trouble traversing the procedures necessary to get the matter 
> properly lodged.  The clerks are supposed to supply you with 
> sufficient instructions, probably in the form of printed material, to 
> permit you access to the court.
>
> This is important, regardless of whether you plan to take the claim to 
> court:  If the you can get the police report on the DWI findings, 
> meaning a blood alcohol level or if the guy pleads guilty to DWI, most 
> states have double damage laws in favor of claimants such as yourself, 
> though not always for property damage claims only.  I wouldn't 
> hesitate to let the adjuster know you're looking into that 
> possibility, the result being that they'll want to get rid of your 
> claim sooner and may throw more money at it.  The drunk guy's policy 
> may exclude that type of coverage, but be assured it will help your 
> claim be one they don't like.  In the same vien, be aware that most 
> states require insurance companies to pay property damage claims 
> within thirty days of receiving "full proof of loss."  Accordingly, 
> the thing to do there is to provide them up front with good evidence 
> of value, the best numbers you can find (Ebay, Hemmings, whatever) AND 
> MAKE A SPECIFIC DEMAND! The rule there is to make your first demand 
> higher than you're willing to take (i.e. you think it's worth $5k, 
> demand $10k first).  When you deliver the demand, which you need to 
> make in writing, also make them aware that you consider this adequate 
> proof of loss, that they have 30 days to pay you the demanded amount, 
> and close your note (politely!) with the fact that if you can't come 
> to an agreement, your next trip is to the courthouse.
>
> Adjusters hate "pro-se" plaintiffs in the courthouse, meaning people 
> who file suit without the benefit of an attorney.  Judges often end up 
> helping pro-se plaintiffs more than a represented plaintiff.
>
> Overall, get your best valuation evidence, be polite, prepared and 
> unruffled.  They can pressure you all they want, but they can't make 
> you sign anything on the spot.  Take your time, subject to the fact 
> that your state will impose a statute of limitations, or "prescrption" 
> period on the claim.  The minimum is one year.  Plainly, if you get 
> paper in front of them with valuation and keep those phone calls and 
> letters coming, you'll be in a position to settle before the statute 
> runs out.
>
> If you hear:  "We don't use Ebay for valuation"  The answer to that is 
> "Okay, but I think the Judge might.  Let's find out!"
>
> Salvage:  Given your description of damage, I suspect that the cost of 
> repair will far exceed the cost of replacement/actual cash value.  The 
> drunk guy is only obligated to pay the lesser of those two numbers.  I 
> know that seems unfair, particularly since this is your dad's car, but 
> that's what the law tolerates.  Get body shop damages anyway, as the 
> high numbers will enhance your claim.  So will the fact that this was 
> your Dad's car and you are justified in associating higher value to 
> it.  Note that the insurance company will have to do a body repair 
> estimate too, and you might find it to be pretty accurate when 
> compared to what you get from a body shop.  Be prepared too for the 
> body shop to ask "you want an estimate for us to really fix it, or for 
> an insrance company?"  The two totals may vary greatly!  They may 
> charge for the estimate (unless you know the guy).  I don't know what 
> your local economy tolerates so I'm trying to guess at all 
> possibilties. Since your car is on the street and given your zip code, 
> keeping salvage may be impractical.  If you want it, don't expect to 
> pay more than a few hundred dollars.
>
> One last trick, one that I've used to my advantage in several cases:  
> Call a bank or go to a auto finance website (and if the insurer is 
> huge enough to offer auto financing, call them!  USAA, for instance, 
> owns a bank and offers financing to their insureds, even on classic 
> cars) and find out how much the bank would secure the make and model 
> Imperial if you were financing it's purchase.  I have used this method 
> with powerful results against insurance adjusters who complain that 
> there was no way to value an old car, or that an old car is only worth 
> $500.  My response was "Well, let me help you out. Here's Bank of 
> America's website printout for classic car financing, and they'll 
> secure the same make and model car for $10,000 in the condition mine 
> was in.  Get out your checkbook!"
>
> Sorry this was so long, but I got a little carried away.  I hope it 
> helps. Good luck.
>
> Patrick
> Southeast Louisiana
> '58 Southampton project car
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCall" <Rob_Mopar@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 9:39 PM
> Subject: RE: IML:drunk people & insurance claims
>
>
> The only thing I can add to what Kenyon said is to insist that you do 
> not
> want the car totaled, you want the money for repairs.  Even if you do 
> decide
> later that the car is too far gone to repair, it's your call, not his
> insurance company's.  With the age of the car, they may not argue.   
> You
> might not be able to get all the money necessary to repair the car, 
> but it
> would be something to work with.
>
> Rob McCall
> '67 LeBaron
>
>
>
>
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