Hello, Robert;
I don’t think there is a big difference in using 20W50, rather than
SAE30W,
especially in the colder months. Considering your climate, I think
I would
just switch to the 20W50 and use it without worry. It should provide
adequate lubrication for startup, the only better thing to do would
be to
install a pre-lube system (which runs an auxiliary oil pump to
circulate oil
before starting), but even that won't help the cylinder wall wear
caused by
startup, because the cylinder walls are lubricated by spray from the
rotating parts. Also, during cold startup, you are running a much
richer
mixture, so there is some inevitable dilution of the oil with raw
gas -
that's another reason to make sure the engine is thoroughly warmed
up each
time you start it.
Dick Benjamin
-----Original Message-----
From: mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rob van
der Es
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 12:28 AM
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960
Imperial
Hello Dick,
Thanks for your very clear answers! (as always a joy to read!!)
I am glad my message survived a quick death from your delete key LOL
Yes, I must admit I have had the bad habit in making short test drives
last year (because the car was registrated at that time, so I have
to made
illegal short runs to sort things out..) so it might be wise to change
that oil even if it has been used for only 500 miles or so.
I am not planning to drive (or even start) the car with
temperatures below
32F, so I think I will be safe with SAE30.
But ofcourse I can use 20W50 too, do you think it has any benefits
to use
this grade?
I can imagine that a 20W50 is easier to crank around in an cold engine
then a straight SAE30, so lubrication with a 20W50 will be better
at cold
starts then?? You see, I have always learned that a cold start will
put
the most stress on an engine!
Anything you can do to make the lubrication during cold starts the
best
will pay off in the end, so I have been told.
Thanks also for your suggestions with regard to the pre-ignition
setting,
I have set it back to its former setting (16 degrees BTDC) and I am
very
happy with it! So at the moment I will leave it there.
And yes, these cars are a delight to drive around town ..
Not only for the headturning power, but also for the overall feel of
quality. The 727 is the best automatic gearbox I have ever
experienced,
even a new Mercedes doesn´t shifts that smooth!!
And throttle response is that good that you sometimes think that
you are
driving a much lighter car!!
Thanks again,
Robert
Op Vr, 16 juni, 2006 3:20 am, schreef Dick Benjamin:
I just returned from vacation, and found about 200 IML messages on my
e-mail, most of which died a quick death under my "delete" key,
but this
one did catch my eye.
On the oil change question, the reason to change oil is from
contamination caused by starting the engine many times, especially
if it
is not run long enough to evaporate all the moisture that
condenses into
the oil. If the engine has always been thoroughly warmed up by
driving it
10 miles or so, it
is safe to change it every 1500 to 2000 miles even if this takes
more than
a year. However, if it has been started and stopped without a
thorough
warm up, I'd change it and the oil filter now, and then avoid this
type of
operation in the future.
As for the grade of oil, SAE30W was recommended when the car was new,
unless the temperature was expected to be below 32F the next time
the car
was to be operated. In your climate, if you feel you might want
to use
the car when it is below freezing when you start it, I think it
is OK to
use 20W50 your car, in fact you can use that year round. I would
not use
the 10W40 or 10W30 that is becoming so common now in that old an
engine.
Note that
SAE30W does not mean "poor quality" oil or "non detergent" oil. Many
older Diesel engine and high performance engine manufacturers
recommend
using this oil, and premium grade oils in this grade are usually
available
in heavy equipment supply houses. Using a Diesel rated oil is
perfectly
OK in a gas
engine - it has a stronger detergent action - but this is a good
thing!
As for your pre-ignition questions - if you can set the timing so
that
the car runs well and you don't hear pre-ignition "pinging", you
are not
going to hurt the engine. It is quite possible that your timing
indicator
has slipped on the crank pulley, and you are getting a wrong idea
about
where it is set. I recommend just advancing the timing until you
just
barely can induce "ping" at part throttle at about 30 MPH, with
the gas
you plan to use in the car, and with the engine thoroughly warmed up.
More acceleration
should make the "ping" go away, and of course less acceleration
will make
it go away - just a tiny range of acceleration should be able to
make it
ping - that is the optimum setting, regardless of what the timing
mark
says.
Throttle response with the 413 is superb - due to the design of the
intake system and the AFB carburetor - that is one of the joys of
driving
these cars - that "snap" off the line. Of course the 727 helps too!
Dick Benjamin
-----Original Message-----
From: mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rob van
der Es
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:29 AM
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial
Hi all,
I would like to hear your expertise about two questions I have with
regard to my 413 engine (1960 Imperial).
Here is the story, I bought last summer in California a great 1960
Imperial and after bringing it to Europe where I live (the
Netherlands) I
started to make the car ready for use on the road.
I don't know the history of the car, I only know that it is a repo
car.
I bought it from a bank that had it for sale at an auction.
As far as I can see and judge the engine must be a rebuild one,
cause it
is running powerful and smooth (can't imagine that I wouldn't have
been
overhauled in 46 years).
I only have driven the car so far for a 500 miles or so and now it is
ready and legally approved to use at a regular base (passed all the
essential tests at the local DMV this monday!)
Now we come to my first question: since I own this car almost a
year now
I
think it is time to do an oil change allthough I only have driven 500
miles
with the new oil that was poured in last summer in the US.
What I would like to know is what kind of oil I should buy: a modern
10W40
or a straight classic SAE 30 oil. From all the stories at the
repair side
of the club webpages I learned that a modern multigrade won't do
any good
because of the very light base oil that is used (SAE10..). Thank you
Dick
for explaining that issue clearly as always!! But is it safe to
use SAE 30
singlegrade in a much colder environment then California??
I would not drive the car at winters when it is freezing, but
mainly on
shiny days with temperatures between let's say 50 and 80 degrees
outside
temperatures. Would I be safe then or is 50 degrees to low to
safely use
SAE30?
At the moment the engine is using a little oil, allthough I don't
see any
leaks or smoke at the tailpipes. I am almost sure the workshop that
checked
the car before delivery to me simply put a modern 10W40 in it so that
might explain a lot..
My next question is about how much pre-ignition is allowed on our
beloved
413 engine?
When I checked the timing last weekend prior to bring the car for its
final check to the local DMV, I noticed that is has a massive 16
degrees
BTDC timing!!
The FSM says that the timing should be 10 degrees BTDC but when I
readjust
the timing to that amount I experienced a severe powerloss :( For
the
book "How to repair big block Mopar engines" by Don Taylor I
learned that
it is safe to start with 12 degrees BTDC and then check if the
engines
"pings".. Well, I have heard no pinging with even 16 degrees
BTDC and the engine is running very smooth then (a lot smoother at
idle
then with 10 degrees BTDC timing) and has lots and lots of power.
Trotlle
response is very impressive with that kind of pre-ignition set.
But will I be safe with 16 degrees BTDC ?? If memory serves me
well the
same Don Taylor also mentioned that you should never go beyond the
limit
of
+/- 4 degrees then the factory given 10 degrees of pre-ignition. That
means that 14 degrees BTDC should be the limit for my engine?
What is your advice on both subjects??
Many thanks for your thoughts!
Robert
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