Re: IML: Alcohol Fuel

["Frederick Joslin" <fljoslin@xxxxxxxx>]

Too much info., but:

I got the following information from a Google search for E-85.

It list gasoline as 114K btu/gallon and e-85 as 83K btu/gallon which is 73% of the value.

 

They go on to say:

 

Should an assumption be made that if E85 contains 27% less btu?s than a gallon of gasoline, the vehicle will travel 27% less miles on the same number of gallons of fuel?  Does this mean that it costs 27% more to operate a vehicle on E85 than on unleaded gasoline?

 

The answers to the preceding questions are NO!  There will indeed be a loss in fuel mileage when a vehicle is operated on E85.  Actual driving experiences  indicate that the loss of fuel mileage in a vehicle using E85 will range from 5% to 12% depending on the driver and the conditions of the terrain. 

 

Also:

E85 is also less energy-dense than gasoline, so a driver goes a bit less far on a gallon. Its current cost advantage is dependent on a 43-cents-a-gallon subsidy, versus a roughly 40-cent tax on a gallon of gasoline.

It's true that ethanol is less energy dense than gasoline, it has about 2/3rds of the energy content of gasoline by volume, but this doesn't necessarily mean reduced travel because it is more efficient to use in an IC engine. Ethanol can be compressed in the engine cylinder at much higher pressures than gasoline as it does not produce the "Knock" effect because it has a very high octane rating, thus increasing efficiency.

Also, the tax credit for ethanol makes E85 about 40-50 cents/gallon cheaper than gasoline right now.

 

 

According to the American Automobile Manufacturers Association, a gallon of typical gasoline contains 114,132 btu?s.  However, even this amount of energy content changes from summer to winter as gasoline?s volatility is seasonally adjusted.  For the purposes of this summary, we assume the following:

 

            1 U.S. Gallon of gasoline contains 114,132 btu

            1 U.S. Gallon of no. 2 diesel fuel contains 138,000 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of methanol contains 56,800 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of propane contains 84,500 btu

1 U.S. Gallon of compressed natural gas contains 19,800 btu

 

Ethanol is denatured by adding 5 gallons of gasoline to 100 gallons of ethanol (4.76%), therefore:

 

Ethanol @ 76,000 btu/gal x 95.24%           =          72,382

Gasoline @ 114,132 btu/gal x 4.76            =            5,433

 

Denatured ethanol                                        =          77,815 btu/gallon

 

E85 is then a blend of denatured ethanol and gasoline, therefore:

 

            Denatured ethanol @ 77,815 btu/gal x 85%          =          66,143

            Gasoline @114,132 btu/gal x 15%             =          17,120

 

            E85                                                                 =          83,263 btu/gal

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Foster"
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: IML: Alcohol Fuel
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:54:27 -0800

Hi;

  I think that you may be getting Alcohol mixed up with propane. Propane delivers about 25% less fuel economy on average then gasoline, but there are variables depending on how the engine is set up. Alcohol fuel is somewhere inbetween the two for power and fuel economy. Back in the twenties, was a serious candidate as an octane booster for gasoline but tetraethol lead won out likely because Standard Oil was pushing it.

Best Regards

Arran Foster

1954 Imperial Newport

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Frederick Joslin

To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 2:06 PM

Subject: Re: IML: Unleaded gas effects

You would probably have to re-jet the carb to use this.

Also, I have heard that E-85  has a very low energy content. Read somewhere that  mileage drops to 50-75% of that which you get with gasoline so it is not such a bargain. 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Harmonson"
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: IML: Unleaded gas effects
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:09:33 -0600


Hi

I have ben following the Unleaded story and wondered about E-85 in old cars.
I work in a Ford dealership and Ford has been making E-85 compatible cars
for some time and Bill Ford, in his ads about "innovation", says he wants
to have 250,000 ethanol ready cars on the road next year. In AutoWeek
magazine I saw where E-85 is available in 35 states, has 105 octane and is
less than $2.00 a gallon. Thoughts or comments?

Jan in Ojai, CA
1955 Imperial sedan
1952 Plymouth Suburban (arriving soon)
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 1:25 PM
Subject: RE: IML: Unleaded gas effects


> Ever since this first posted, I have been wondering about D^2's valves. I
was trying to remember if he had rebuilt the cylinder heads on his car to
take what he has proclaimed to do with that '68 Imperial. Maybe he will sign
in here and tell us.
>
> I am still thinking that I wouldn't bother rebuilding the heads unless
they showed the need for other work in the first place. I should admit that
some of my Imperials have gone way past 100,000 without a valve job.
>
> Paul W.
>
> In an email dated Thu, 17 11 2005 4:55:36 pm GMT, "Dick Benjamin"
writes:
>
> >Yes, it was only 16,000 miles, but remember our conditions out here are
> >really tough, and this car was driven almost totally on long (1600 to
2800
> >mile trips) and always in the hottest months, usually with 5 or 6 adults
and
> >a packed solid trunk. I know some of these trips went through temps
pushing
> >120, and the car asked for no special treatment at all, so I just kept
> >blasting down the Interstate. Our speed limits are posted at 70, but the
> >usual speed is 80-85 once you get out of town, and very few passed me!
> >
> > If you have been following the exploits of D^2, you know what I mean
when
> >I say I'd love to get a look at his valves!
> >
> >Dick Benjamin
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
RandalPark@xxxxxxx
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:00 PM
> >To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Re: IML: Unleaded gas effects
> >
> >Sorry that this happened to you Dick, but it is a good lesson for all of
us.
> >I am an advocate for "going the whole nine yards" when doing a valve job,
> >hardened valve seats and all, but only when it is already going to be
done.
> >So far, I have not recommended that the heads be reconditioned in this
way
> >until the apparent need for work arises, or the process was going to be
done
> >anyway. It is interesting that this car was only run 16,000 miles before
> >requiring more work. I may have to rethink my philosophy on this.
> >
> >Paul W.
> >
> >In an email dated Thu, 17 11 2005 2:30:54 am GMT, "Dick Benjamin"
> > writes:
> >
> >>I have been an advocate of ignoring the supposed bad consequences of
using
> >>unleaded gas in our older cars - as most of you probably know, those
cars
> >>built before 1974 were not designed to be run on unleaded gas.
> >
> >REST OF MESSAGE TRIMMED..................
> >
> >
> >
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>
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Fred Joslin

Fred Joslin