Re: Re: IML: Fuselage Era cars - 69-71 as only Fuselages a tough sell

["Bill Watson" <wwatson5@xxxxxxxxx>]

All 1969-73 Imperials shared windshields (2-door & 4-door hardtops share the
same glass) while the 4-door hardtops used the same rooflne and side
windows.  They also shared the same rocker panels and doors sills.   The
changes in 1972 amounted to a reskinning - the basic understructure remained
the same from 1969 through 1973.

When you look at the 1972-73 Imperials from the front, you are looking at
those large fender caps/bumper ends  I mentioned on an earlier post.  They
give the car a more square design from the side and most definitely from the
front.  If you check a front view of a 1972 Chrysler, which uses the same
body and basic sheetmetal as the Imperial and does not have those boxy
fender ends, you can see the side flare.

To see just how much tumblehome there was on a 1972-73 Imperial, park a
1969-71 Imperial next to a 1972-73 model and open the doors.   You will see
the outside curve on the 1972-73 model  is virtually identical to the
1969-71.   The 1972 reskinning removed the upper character line from the
sides while the lower one was changed to a line parallel to the body sill,
making the car look boxier and more massive.  But, the curve is still there.
You just cannot see it from the front due to those massive fender
caps/bumper ends.

If you have a copy of Uncle Tom's test of the 1973 Imperial, look at the
front end shot on the article's first page.  You can the see the curvature
on the body sides between the wheelwells and the lack thereof on the fender
ends ahead of the front wheelwell.

I am a great fan of Engel's fuselage C bodies.and, in particular, the
Imperials.  The saddest part about them is how unappreciated and undervalued
they are today.  And sadly, the same situation existed when they were new.
(Well, maybe undervalued is not so bad if you want to buy one . . .)

Bill
Vancouver, BC


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <tomswift@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Re: IML: Fuselage Era cars - 69-71 as only Fuselages a tough
sell


> Yes, I have made a side by side comparison between the Imperials of the
fuselage era and the 72-73's,
> and though there are many similarities, there are more differences.
"Different" and "similar" are
> subjective terms and hard to quantify, but I would say that, objectively
speaking, the differences far
> outweigh the similarities.
>
> Tumblehome doesn't refer to the front glass, only to the shape of the body
when viewed in cross
> section.  It is not defined by the rake of the windshield.
>
> The body of the 1970 has the exact same curvature as a '69 or a '71.  If
you look at a '72 or '73, the
> middle of the body has been flattened out to blend into the massive front
fenders.  You could NOT
> interchange doors between a '72 and a 1970.  If you tried, you would
immediately see the difference I
> am talking about.  If I could draw in this e-mail I could show you.  It's
a totally different shape.
>
> If anyone goes to the website and looks at pictures of these years you can
see that in 1972 they started
> out with the same basic shell or platform as the '71 but retooled it to
distinguish it from the years before.
> This is MORE than just a grille or taillight change, which is all that was
done in the previous 3 years.
> The shape of the body itself was changed.  This, to me, is enough of a
break to constitute a different
> "era," or design trend.
>
> Mark M
>
> > From: Kenyon Wills <imperialist1960@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 2005/08/19 Fri AM 01:44:18 EDT
> > To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: IML: Fuselage Era cars - 69-71 as only Fuselages a tough
sell
> >
> > --- Mark McDonald <tomswift@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >  in
> > > my opinion, the fuselage era only lasted for three
> > model years,1969, 1970, and 1971.
> > > After that, the Imperial was redesigned and lost the
> > > curved cross-sectional look associated with the
> > previous three years.  Some people like to think of
> > this period as "2nd generation fuselage," but
> > > there really is no mention of this term in any
> > > Chrysler literature that I'm aware of.  If you look
> > at a '73 next to a '69 there is very little
> > resemblance between the two.
> >
> >
> > Ummm.  you're entitled.
> >
> > I have a 1970 and a 1973.
> >
> > Park them next to each other.  They seem more similar
> > than different in overall feel until I start comapring
> > details.  I'm sorta bummed that its dark right now, or
> > I'd go out and take a close look and go farther with
> > this because I've been working on that 1962 like mad
> > this week.  (engine's done and in - just got to
> > reconnect and fire it up).
> >
> > The front glass for 1970 to 1973 interchanges, so
> > perhaps the assertion that the tumblehome is different
> > in 72-73 isn't quite as solid as can be?  The front
> > glass defines the tumblehome as the A pillars are
> > parallel to the glass shape?
> >
> > The 1970 has what seem to be "flatter" or more slab
> > sideed, where the 1973 seems more curved?  This
> > statement from memory...  I "think" that the
> > tumbleunder on my 73 is more pronounced, not less.
> >
> > 70 has higher chrome on the front end, the 73 lower -
> > look at how the hood flares downward and the lower
> > bumper bar is thinner than the 1970.
> >
> > Rear quarters are almost identical until you look at
> > the crease right behind the C pillar, and it's in a
> > different place.
> >
> > All subtle differences.
> >
> > The 1970 seems to have considerably more forceful
> > pickup under its gas pedal, and it was made within a
> > few months of my own birthday, so I do like it a
> > "little" better, although the 1973 is a higher
> > mileage, lower compression, smog car.
> >
> > I also co-own a 1972 with Pauline, and it took me a
> > month of wrenching on it to notice that it does not
> > have wing windows, and unusual feature considering
> > that they were a defacto design element on every other
> > postwar Imperial that I've come to know (no, I'm not
> > personally counting post 1973, as that's not my bag.
> >
> >
> > My vote would go to all 5 years being Fuselage, but I
> > guess that you could make an argument either way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -So what DOES one call 64-66?
> >
> > 64-66 are Engel cars to me (patently ignoring the fact
> > that he designed later ones, too - they were his first
> > stamp on the company).  What he was thinking by
> > putting a car-wide aircraft propellor shape into the
> > back bumper is beyond me, although it works.
> >
> >
> > 67-68?
> > The Haze Green Era? (I like that quite a bit!)
> >
> > Since nobody else has named those, aren't we, as the
> > carriers of the torch entitled some licence?
> >
> > Kenyon Wills
> >
> >
> >



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