IML: Imperial and other brand decline during the dark years of the '70's - 80's, and well into the '90's

["Wm. R. Ulman" <twolaneblacktop@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Gee Carmine, Sorry your so mad at the fact the '70's & '80's are some of the
worst years of U.S. auto quality ever.  Golly, if you can show me how
Detroit kept all it's market share, and did not lose, what is it now, at
least 25% of it's market share, I'd be happy to learn something new.  As for
the reality that Detroit was asleep at the wheel during the '70's, let's
look at our beloved Chrysler, shall we?  By the late '70's they were so out
of touch with the U.S. Auto market, and what they offered as their choices,
people stayed away in droves, and their quality was like the rest of U.S.
Cars, crap.  Even IML list members talk of how the Imperial/New Yorker
Brougham cheapened year after year during this later '70's period.  Oh, and
lest we forget, to support that claim, just look at Chrysler sales in the
late '70's.  If not for a negotiated Federal Gov't bailout, Chrysler would
have been complete history 20 years ago.  The '81 K-car kept them afloat for
a couple years, the '80's Imperial was a disaster with it's fuel injection
that dealers all to frequently switched over to carburetors, and not until
the Chrysler Minivan offerings appeared on the market in '84, which saved
their corporate asses.  From '81 through '93 most of MoPar's offerings were
variants on the K-Car, or more commonly referred to as "Parts bin" models,
some stretched, but basically a Reliant-K.  You can't change history to suit
your views.  The foreign makes stepped in, with quality cars, fuel
efficient, economical, reliable cars.  If they were not good cars, people
would not have made Toyota the brand it became in the '70's, and remains
today.  Honda was to the '80's what Toyota was to the '70's, and now both
hold value better than virtually any U.S. brand.  My '97 Cadillac was worth
$8K in Sept. '03.  Pretty bad for a $40K car new six years earlier.  Honda,
and Toyota hold their values much better, and are much more sought out than
the Chevy Cavalier, Ford Escort, Dodge Neon, etc..

To suggest that just because the U.S. had some innovation in the '70's wipes
out their decline in quality, and market share is actually quite, well,
absurd.  That is just my opinion, and that held by millions of other
consumers who switched from ANY American car to the Japanese imports for
quality, economy, quality of build, and long term reliability.  That is
still true today, the U.S. auto makers are scrambling to meet quality
standards now set by imported cars, mostly Japanese.  Chrysler, Ford, GM,
comparing their offerings to those that are outselling the U.S. brands, not
the foreign brands comparing their wares to ours to convince the American
auto buying public to buy foreign.  You may want to check out a Consumers
Report on cars in the same field, and the American cars can not compete.
Perhaps this is starting to change, but it took 30 years for Detroit to even
start to play catch up.  Detroit's silver lining was, and still remains the
SUV, but the foreign makes are offering larger models too these days, so
time will tell how that affects U.S. sales.  Also of note, the SUV is
largely responsible for the virtual evaporation of any personal coupe
offered by any U.S. automaker.

I love my Imperial, I also love American cars, but not to much in the '70's
& '80 impressed me.  Not a huge market for '70's & '80's American cars as of
yet, even as these cars are now 30 years old.  Even in the '70's and early
'80's it was the American cars of the '50's through the '60's that have
held, and continue to appreciate in value and desirability.  Detroit
continued to offer V-8 engines with no guts well into the later '70's when
they started to offer V-6's as standard, and in '79 you could buy a new
Corvette with 180 hp, or right in that neighborhood.  Oh, and how can we
forget that wonderful GM Top of the line, only offered in Cadillac as it was
such a well thought out, and tested innovation, the V-8-6-4 of '81.  One
year only?  Then the HT4100 helped their reputation tremendously.  The
average age of a Cadillac buyer by the early '90's was 67 years old.  A
competitive brand still at that point?  Hardly.  But the Marque carried it
through until the Northstar came around with it's notorious half-seal oil
leak issues.  A Consumer Reports top 5 cars...to NOT buy.

As for your rust comment, please!  The Vega, Aspen/Volare?  Vega's could be
had in Miami, FL 2-3 years old for $99.00, if it ran.  A friend of mine had
a '72 Vega wagon, and she would have to remove each sparkplug and wipe it
clean anytime the temp. dropped below 50 degrees if she expected the car to
start.  She named that car "Baby", since she had to baby it every mile it
ever chugged along to survive.  Her dad was so concerned he bought her a
German produced Mercury Capri, and that was much better for both her, and
her dad's peace of mind.  Annette still, almost fondly, but with head
shaking laughter refers to that Vega as a joke of a car.  In Miami, the
windshields would start to rust on the showroom floor, the hatchback's would
do the same.

The gas first gas crisis of '73, do you remember that?  I do.  Stations
rationed, many to $5.00 worth only.  At that time that may have been a
little less than 10 gallons.  You can't get far on that in an Imperial, or
any other large V-8 available at the time, and could burn that much waiting
in line for your $5.00 worth.  Remember Odd/Even plates days?  I do.

Door pulls that would come right off the door panel in your hand on a pretty
new car was a GM benchmark of quality on the Cutlass/Grand Prix/Monte
Carlo/Century models.  Fit and finish of U.S. brands was AWFUL.  Paint runs,
etc..  Again, not to many people are rushing out to buy '70's cars, at least
after the '72's, which were mostly style holdover's from the 60's.

I'm sorry if you took offense, and of course I never meant any, but I was
there, and saw the decline.  Were you?  I was a hardcore American car person
well into the '80's defending cars that could not hold a candle to the
imports.  The Cavalier, Fairmont, LTD II, second generation
Cordoba/Diplomat's of the early '80's.  That is how I see/saw it.  If your
personal experience is different, I take my hat off to you, and think you
were very lucky, and would welcome a civil, respectful, adult discussion on
the subject.  You may contact me off list if you wish, as this is not
entirely Imperial related, but certainly does apply as I stated earlier, the
pull backs in design, materials, parts, and overall quality of the
Imperial/NY Brougham starting with the '69 Fuselage years, which I
personally love the style, but they were cheapened quite a bit over time.
By the '74 style it was a goner.

As with many issues, and within any group there will always be dissention,
and people of a like mind in some respects, such as Imperials, may just have
to agree to disagree on other peripheral subjects in relation to
automobiles, and the change in dynamics the '70's brought to Detroit.

As for ill-informed, I hardly think so, but you are most welcome to your
opinion.  I may not be on mark at all times, as I do not hold a Doctorate in
automotive history, but I was not several decades removed from the
happenings of the '70's, or '60's for that matter.  Unless you know my age
to be different than it is, please refrain from trying to make me appear
younger than I actually am.  

Respectfully yours, Carmine, and everyone else,

Bill Ulman
Seattle, WA
'66 Crown Convertible Coupe - Doris Day
WA State vanity plates: FIT4AQN

-----Original Message-----
From: mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of K C
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 5:38 PM
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: IML: Imperials rear defrost vs. the "Competition" in '71


Cleaning out some old e-mail and couldn't resist
this..

..........................................
> Anyway, I think that is kind of interesting.  By the
> early '70's Detroit was
> well on it's way to full recline position in it's
> Lazy-Boy, resting on it's
> laurels, assuming it would never be really
> challenged for the U.S. auto
> market attitude.  In comes a Toyota with a major
> improvement to the rear
> defrost issue, head and shoulders above the blower
> system held over from
> the, what, 50's in at least Chrysler products?
............................................


I love when people who are thousands of miles (and
several decades) removed from the auto industry say
things like "Detroit did this... Resting on their
laurels... Detroit, blah, blah, blah."

Guess what? The '71 Lincoln I just bought has a heated
rear backlite (works good BTW), although I'm pretty
sure GM had it first. It also has rear-wheel ABS. My
'73 Imperial offers 4-wheel ABS. GM offered air-bags
in '71 models. Chrysler got rid of points by 1972, and
was the first to offer electronic, computerized spark
AND fuel management by 1976. GM invented the catalytic converter in 1975,
and receives no royalties from this anti-pollution device used on every
single combustion engine to this day. I could go on, but I think my point is
made.

You don't spread un-informed negative stereotypes, and
I won't tell anecdotal stories about early 70s foreign
cars which rusted so badly the doors jammed shut after
3 years of midwesten winter.

As to "why" Chrysler continued with the forced-air
defroster, I can only imagine it was because the
required 100 AMP alternator didn't arrive 'till '75.

Carmine F.

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