|
|
Regular
Posts: 64
| Fellow Members,
I have another nagging problem that I hope you can help me solve. I have owned a '64 New Yorker for some years. The original starter crapped out about a year ago and could not be rebuilt, or at least it would have needed all major components. So, I installed an original starter that I had cleaned up. It worked flawlessly for about two months, then it began to make the deadly "click" from the solenoid when I attempted to start the car. The car always started after several attempts, but no one wants to be stranded, so I rechecked everything in the starter three times. Nothing I did corrected this sometimes-yes-sometimes-no situation, so I bought a new starter and installed it. It worked flawlessly on the first couple of attempts and then, "click!" This new starter is doing the same thing as the used one I had, so in desperation, I replaced the starter relay which was original--still the same intermittent clicking. Hard to believe two starters would do this, so I am wondering if I am missing some other problem and wrongly condemning the solenoids on both of these starters. I am afraid to drive the car anywhere until I have his problem corrected. Any suggestions are welcome. I will conclude by saying the car has never failed to start eventually and both starters worked well about 50% of the time and when the clicked, they always eventually turned over. Thanks! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1802
  
Location: Alaska | it is possible a badly worn ring gear might be the problem. the starter gear does not fully engage with the ring gear so the solenoid internally does not make contact to operate the starter. When you shut off the engine, it does not stop turning at random points but because of compression it tends to stop turning at maybe one of four places which means the ring gear does not get even wear but instead wears more at a few places. I can't say for sure this is the problem but have seen it before. I hope this makes sense. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 433
Location: Hilltown, PA |
It is very difficult to diagnose this kind of thing long distance simply because there are multiple possible issues, and what you call a "click" someone else may call a "clunk" - which are actually two very different symptoms.
Given that multiple units have exhibited the same symptom, and the symptom is intermittent, and you state that "eventually" the starter will operate, I would be far more suspicious of a bad connection someplace in the starter circuit.
I'm going to assume you've checked and cleaned all of the connections on the power side (or are doing that now) because that's where we tend to look - at the wires.
However, don't forget that all that current needs to get back to the battery . . .
I would carefully check the ground side of the circuit - Is the negative cable in good condition? Is it properly secured at the battery? Does the ground end of the cable (at the engine or frame) have a good, clean connection? If the negative cable mounts to the engine, is there a sufficiently sized cable providing a ground path to the frame and body of the car? Is that cable also in good condition with good clean tight connections? And if the negative cable grounds to the frame, is there corresponding cables from the frame to the engine, also in good condition? How about the starter itself - is there a heavy coat of paint on the starter where it mounts to the engine, or on the engine itself? We expect the mounting bolts to provide ground path for the starter, but sometimes this isn't the case, and we need to clean he bolts/holes/mounting pads to insure a good electrical path.
Remember that ALL grounds are important - if you have a good ground to the starter, but the body ground is questionable, when you load the circuit the starter relay may fail to engage, or drop out when the bad connection resistance goes up due to current flow.
We often overlook the ground side of circuits, and many intermittant or unusual electrical issues stem for ground side faults.
Gregg
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 522
Location: Invermere B.C. Canada - Rocky Mountains | The solenoids are clicking because they are not getting the required voltage to hold them engaged because of either a wiring problem or a poor condition battery. Try another battery. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 522
Location: Invermere B.C. Canada - Rocky Mountains | So, the world is waiting with great expectations on the results / solution. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 64
| Guys,
Thanks so much for your suggestions about grounding. Everything on this car is original, including both batter cables, which do not seem to be corroded or in poor condition, and all the connections and wires appear to be good. I did replace the original starter relay with a new one, and this did not help either; however, the middle wire on the relay , the one held down by a screw clamp and which goes to the solenoid, gets very hot when I am attempting to start the car. Over the last week, I would say I have started the car 50 times and it starts normally most of the time. When I get the dreaded click (from the solenoid definitely), it might click for five or six attempts, then the car starts and may do so normally for a while. What does it mean if that post on the relay is getting really hot? A poor ground somewhere again? Is the new relay bad?
I surely have appreciated all of your helpful comments, and am going back again to recheck everything. Any comments on the relay heating up would be appreciated.
Thanks! |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 10565
Location: So. Cal | No, it means that either there is too much mechanical resistance that is preventing the solenoid from moving well, or that the wire is too small to handle the required current. Try taking the starter out and lubing up the movement of the starter gear on the shaft. Make sure that you can easily slide it up and down to engage it with your fingers. You may also try increasing the wire size from that lug. There could be an internal problem with the wire, where it doesn't have enough strands of copper that are making the connection. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 64
| Thanks, surely sounds possible. I am willing to try lubing the gear. This is a new starter, in fact, the second new starter, but anything is possible at this point. The solenoid wire is the original one and certainly looks undamaged, but perhaps it's time to replace the battery cables and wires. The negative cable has some bare spots on it, but it looks very good and there is not corrosion on either cable or on anything. I have had this 64 for years, and it's always been completely dependable, so I am sure there is a simple answer somewhere. When the solenoid clicks, it always engages and sounds normal after several attempts, which seems odd--makes me feel I am on borrowed time  |
|
| |
Starter Clicking on '64 Chrysler
