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Panel Warp
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-12-09 12:12 AM (#626221)
Subject: Panel Warp



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I'm trying to make use of a crappily made floor pan by RCar. It's made from a decent gauge metal and the figure for the foot area looks approximately correct, so that's nice, but I have nothing else good to say about it.

Here are some of the issues with it, I hope they are out of business now:
The panel isn't square, so when it lines up at the front, it doesn't line up at the sides. I cut most of the back end off of it and will have to flatten the sides down as well to extend the metal where I need it.
The beads aren't deep or wide enough ( I beat mine wider and deeper with an appropriately sized deep socket against an open vice, and re-flattened the panel afterward.)
The depression for the seat mount is done OK, but in a completely wrong spot on the panel - useless.
Body mount depression is pathetically shallow, like one whack with a ball-peen kind-of shallow - and it's in slightly the wrong place.
He put an extra depression for a non-existent body mount. Not to worry too much about it because it's really shallow, but it's yet another extra depression I have to beat out.
The upper inner bend is accomplished by cutting the panel into many strips that you then have to weld back together.

Anyway, I was hoping to salvage this thing to use on my New Yorker and purchased an appropriately sized dimple die to put a real body mount into it, but when I did, it crimped up and warped the panel pretty badly. I should be able to fix it eventually, but I am wondering what did I do wrong? What do I need to do to create this impression without all the distortion to the panel that I created with it? The only thing I could think of is applying heat, but was hoping I wouldn't have to do that as it causes the metal to stretch, making it thin. Thanks in advance.



(Panel Dimple Warp.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Panel Dimple Warp.jpg (108KB - 63 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2022-12-09 12:44 AM (#626222 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: RE: Panel Warp


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I have had similar experiences so that is why I make the body mounts separately and weld in. Then it is easy to get them right on the spot.
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60 dart
Posted 2022-12-09 1:08 AM (#626223 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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looks like gathering of the sheet in the die . you might try drilling the install hole first , then the die shaping . heat
i think might warp everything . install hole will let the metal expand around the hole and not eat the surrounding
metal. the pressure has to be released , the hole affords that --------------------------------later
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finsruskw
Posted 2022-12-09 9:27 AM (#626225 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp


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All sorts of "squirrely" things happen when you try to form sheet metal without the proper pressing equipment with the proper weight, power and speed.
Watch any you tube videos on vintage auto plant stamping operations.
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-12-09 10:57 AM (#626226 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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I'm aware of how it is done in a factory. Obviously, I don't and won't have that kind of equipment to play with. But the guys that made these panels are able to form them without any real distortion. Is that just because they didn't go very far with it? That might be, but I purchased panels made by the Finnish floor brace guy with pockets that are even deeper than what I made, and his panel had very little distortion in it as well. So what's the trick to it?

I have resorted to welding previously made pockets into the panel as well, like you Ralf, but I am wanting to learn what it takes to bend it into the panel from the start. I clearly don't know what needs to be done to make that happen well.

Chuck, I agree with you about the hole, but this die does require a hole already to be able to work.
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wizard
Posted 2022-12-09 12:05 PM (#626229 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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Probably the sheetmetal slips in the die.
Try to apply a little grease on the male part.
Then work in steps.
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Darryl T
Posted 2022-12-09 1:51 PM (#626234 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: RE: Panel Warp



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Powerflite - 2022-12-08 9:12 PM

I was hoping to salvage this thing to use on my New Yorker and purchased an appropriately sized dimple die to put a real body mount into it, but when I did, it crimped up and warped the panel pretty badly. I should be able to fix it eventually, but I am wondering what did I do wrong? What do I need to do to create this impression without all the distortion to the panel that I created with it? The only thing I could think of is applying heat, but was hoping I wouldn't have to do that as it causes the metal to stretch, making it thin. Thanks in advance.


I had the same complaints about the repro floor panels. I used a similar die to deepen the body mount holes, but I drilled appropriate sized holes in a couple of scraps of 2X10 boards and clamped them on both sides of the panel first, and then used the dimple die through the holes. Worked quite well with little warpage. I also used a 20-ton press instead of the bolt in the die where possible.
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ronbo97
Posted 2022-12-09 4:04 PM (#626235 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp


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Y'all would save yourself a lot of grief if you just cut original metal from parts cars. Then you know it will be correct. The only repro panels that work and fit correctly are what the Swedes are making overseas. Not cheap and shipping is expensive.

Ron
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60 dart
Posted 2022-12-09 6:18 PM (#626236 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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I had the same complaints about the repro floor panels. I used a similar die to deepen the body mount holes, but I drilled appropriate sized holes in a couple of scraps of 2X10 boards and clamped them on both sides of the panel first, and then used the dimple die through the holes. Worked quite well with little warpage. I also used a 20-ton press instead of the bolt in the die where possible.

had this same thought last night when i posted at 1am. thinking though of using heavy gauge metal instead of wood and a tight clamping. Wiz has a
good point also . -------------------------------------later
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-12-10 11:23 AM (#626248 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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Thanks, I need to make 4 more of these pockets for this car and I'll give your suggestions a try.

Ron, I'm well aware of the possibility of using original panels and I have purchased 2 vehicles expressly for that purpose, but there comes a point where it isn't worth waiting for months/years to find a good parts car and pay $1000's to purchase it and $1000 to ship it. At some point, I am going to have to learn how to do this well myself, because shipping from Sweden is too expensive to purchase relatively unimportant floor panels from there, and relying on other greedy/blind/idiot Americans to make them well is futile. Until we get someone with a brain in the states to make them, there's no time like the present to get it done properly by myself like practically everything else I need to do on these cars.

I might be better off just welding a separate pocket into this panel, and I might end up doing that if this fails miserably, but I count this as a good learning experience regardless. But the pockets I use from now on, will all be of my own making.
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ttotired
Posted 2022-12-10 5:02 PM (#626253 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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I like the "wood" idea.

I tried making a press die to put a bead through a flat panel and it failed miserably.

The panel is to be a heater block off.

A bead roller would be great for this job, but way to much for me to buy and no where to keep it.

With the floor pans, I often look at panels and wonder how they get the metal to move to get the shape. I watched a video
on cooking pots being stamped out, amazing. I dont get how the metal just doesnt tear or wrinkle up

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mikes2nd
Posted 2022-12-11 9:59 PM (#626292 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp


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the the RCar stuff is about the best you can get, mine worked but yes things need adjusted...

I would use them again if i didnt have oem floors.

I do have a full set of floors for my 58 plymouth but not for the 57 300... I dont think RCar makes them anymore.

RCar uses those wooden bucks but its the best you can get.. When did you get yours? I got mine 4 years ago and the dimple was pretty good. I think i did cut and weld it deeper...
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-12-11 11:08 PM (#626294 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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See the little bump just above the seat mount and below the damage done by my die? That's the extra dimple they put in. The other one they put in looked just like it - pathetically shallow. Also, I cut right through the seat mount because that's where the seat mount was supposed to be located. I could have cut it out and re-welded it where it belonged, but I didn't need it, so I didn't bother.

The other really annoying thing is that the panel wasn't tall enough at the front. Most rust damage extends higher up than what they provide. So I'll have to fix that with more patches. Pretty frustrating to get such lousy quality. That's why I haven't used these until now.

Edited by Powerflite 2022-12-11 11:10 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-12-26 4:58 PM (#626579 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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I finally made a proper body mount, but it wasn't as straightforward as it should have been. The dimple die that I first used from Speedway Auto was the biggest size they offered and was still too small and too shallow to provide what I need. So I purchased a new 2.5" ID, 4" OD dimple from Mittler Bros. through Summit. This isn't really a dimple die though, it's really a flared hole die. You insert the plug into a large 2.5" hole and it creates the radius that you want on it. That's not what I need. I'm going to try to machine the plug end of it to make it more useful for these body mounts.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mbt-1310-308

But in the mean time, I pressed a 331 hemi fuel pump eccentric into the receiver die to get the main shape. That eccentric fits with just the right amount of clearance to press the sheet metal in the hole, however, it doesn't' have a soft radius on the end of it, so it makes a sharp bend inside the pocket. I found that it stops moving once a significant crease develops at the top of the panel, but that using grease on the sheet metal does help to keep it moving in the receiver. But I still had to stop and hammer out the creases before I could proceed further. I didn't use any kind of clamp on it this time because of how small the panel is. To get a smother radius and to get a deeper pocket, I then pressed my deep socket into it, which is a smaller diameter. That helped a lot to get a more curved radius. I had to hammer out the sharp bend created from the cam eccentric afterward, but it came out the proper size and shape this time after fixing the creases at the top.

Next time I will try just using the socket from the start to see if that works better. Once I get my plug end machined down properly, I'll try putting a pocket in the middle of a large panel with it.



(New Dimple Die & Mild Success.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments New Dimple Die & Mild Success.jpg (246KB - 61 downloads)
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60 dart
Posted 2022-12-27 5:26 PM (#626600 - in reply to #626221)
Subject: Re: Panel Warp



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keep pluggin away , you'll get it done-------------------------------------later
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