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Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General Discussion | Message format |
1959Dodge |
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Expert Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Hello everybody, not been here for a while. I took my 1964 Dodge Polara 500 to a shop for a tranny leak. Turns out the car also had a water leak, a cracked block~~~OUCHHH The shop is going to try to repair the crack but since I bought the car new I want to replace the 413 engine that is in it now. Engine has been in the car around 25 years. It replaced the original 426 Street Wedge that was originally in the car when I ordered the car from the factory back in October 1963. That engine was sent to a machine shop for repair and they "Lost the Engine" ?????? (I'm sure they sold it but that's water under the bridge now. The wife really wants a 426 again alto I'm sure it would be a lot easier to find a 440. Anyway, any help here is much appreciated!! Gary Johnson (AKA 1959Dodge). (1964 Dodge Right Side.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1964 Dodge Right Side.jpg (109KB - 57 downloads) | ||
Finsinthemirror |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1115 Location: CA | What's the difference between the 426 and a 440 other than bore and maybe talking points? I'd prob go with a 440. Beautiful car! | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | 1959Dodge - 2022-09-20 12:22 PM Hello everybody, not been here for a while. I took my 1964 Dodge Polara 500 to a shop for a tranny leak. Turns out the car also had a water leak, a cracked block~~~OUCHHH The shop is going to try to repair the crack but since I bought the car new I want to replace the 413 engine that is in it now. Engine has been in the car around 25 years. It replaced the original 426 Street Wedge that was originally in the car when I ordered the car from the factory back in October 1963. That engine was sent to a machine shop for repair and they "Lost the Engine" ?????? (I'm sure they sold it but that's water under the bridge now. The wife really wants a 426 again alto I'm sure it would be a lot easier to find a 440. Anyway, any help here is much appreciated!! Gary Johnson (AKA 1959Dodge). I'm very sorry to hear that, Gary. Did they show you the "cracked block"? I guess not. No such thing as a "lost engine". This is absurd. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that must have been a Max Wedge? Pretty valuable and the people who "lost" your engine, reduced the value of your car by (guessing) 70+% They thought probably, hey, that guy is 80+ so... Such things make me so mad, I can't find words for it. I'd consult a lawyer about this. | ||
1959Dodge |
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Expert Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Good to hear from you 1960 Fury. As that "lost engine" occurred about 25 years ago. too late for lawyer now. I originally ordered the car with a 4 speed stick shift with a Hurst shifter. After I got married my wife complained about her left leg getting bigger than her right leg, (The clutch pedal took a lot of effort to depress). Sooooo, I had to make a decision, Do I want Matching car numbers or matching legs? You know what they say, "Happy wife, happy life" so the 4 speed got exchanged for a torqueflite! So the car was not really "matching numbers" at that point. The car was our daily driver from 1964 until 1974, and was not looked upon as an "investment" at that point in time, and it still isn't. It's the wife's "Baby" and She would become an "instant widow" were I to sell the car. (IE she would kill me, Lol). In fact I did not want to sell my 59 Dodge convertible and considered selling the 64 Dodge instead. Obviously I did not do that, (although I'm now 80 years old, I still prefer to die by "Natural Causes". Thanks for your concerns and I'll keep everybody posted on the 1964 Dodge status (even thou it does'nt qualify for posting here, but my 1958 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible does qualify me to post! Gary Edited by 1959Dodge 2022-09-21 1:26 AM | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | really just depends on what you're looking for and how much you want to spend 440 is cheap and easy... | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Why not go 440 but painted and stickered to look like a 426 street wedge? Just never deny that the engine isn't a 426 when asked "What gives?" | ||
57burb |
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Expert Posts: 3966 Location: DFW, TX | Since there is no chance the car can go back to "numbers matching", I'd probably just put a 440 in it while maintaining the appearance of the original 426. The few 426 wedge engines out there typically "belong" to a car, so it will be pretty difficult to locate one ~60 years later. But maybe keep your eyes out, you never know what's out there. Love your car. Quick story. My grandfather managed Nowell Dodge in Arlington TX from '62 to '72 and of course they always had hot cars on the lot. He pulled out a '64 Max Wedge Dodge hardtop, and used it to teach my 10-year-old dad how to drive a stick. He said that if my dad could drive that rough-running, heavy clutch POS, he would be able to drive anything. | ||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3768 Location: NorCal | Another argument for going 440, chances are that anything you find will need an overhaul and there's more piston variety and availability with the 440. | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | I remember seeing a 426 max wedge for sale at spring fling in 2019. No idea where it went, but attending the flings is your best bet to finding something like that. Fall fling will happen on Oct. 22 at Woodley Park in Van Nuys. The heavy clutch issue is easily solved nowadays by installing a diaphragm style clutch. When you do, you have to remove or replace the over-center clutch spring on the pedal to prevent the pedal from staying on the floor when it is engaged. | ||
Shep |
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Expert Posts: 3393 Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | A real Maxwedge of any generation would be expensive and in its original configuration is not very streetable. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | Gary, I think it is amazing, that you held on to your 1rst car all these years! Ok, the engine was "lost" 25 years ago, that is something different. Since there is no way to get the OE block back anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to change from 426 to 440. Good luck with that. Just googled and learned, that a Street Wedge isn't a Max Wedge. I'm not into the later cars and thought a 426 Wedge is always a Max Wedge. But from what I understand the blocks are the same, with the same casting number and a Max Wedge could have been build from your Street Wedge. That is, I guess, the reason it was "lost". | ||
1959Dodge |
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Expert Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Yes there were actually 3, 426 Wedges made in 1964. (1) Mine was the "Street Wedge", 365 HP, 10.3 to 1 CR, single 4 barrel carter carb. (2) Was the Stage 2 Wedge. 11 to 1 compression ratio, 2, 4 barrel carbs (3) Stage 3 Wedge was 13.5 to 1 CR, 2, 4 barrel cars & even an aluminum hood. The Street Wedge was a $500 option, and included police brakes and a sure grip diff, Anti roll bar. I thought about buying the 426 Hemi and test drove one. It was a $900 option. It was no good for the street, especially with a 4 speed stick (No low end torque), so I bought the Wedge. Thanks for all the posts guys! The 413 in it really runs and sounds great, so we'll see how the block leak fix goes. Maybe at 80 years old a new motor is not such a wise decision, ya thinks? Gary | ||
ToMopar |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1153 Location: D-70199 Heslach | Gary I'm much younger than you (58) but I can understand the reasons that were in the foreground from 1964 to 1974. Back then, the Dodge was simply a means of transportation and I find it extremely remarkable that you two still look after and cherish this car just like you did on the first day. Of course it's a pity about the matching wedge, also about the manual gearbox - but I can understand it. The general opinion here is a 440 - a 440 crate motor is probably the fastest way to get the "baby" running again. Good luck,- let me know If I can help you in any way /ToM | ||
1959Dodge |
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Expert Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Here is the way the "Street Wedge" came from the factory. Yes it came with the large Chrome Air cleaner & the Chrome valve covers. The engine color was a blue green color, alto I'm not sure that this picture showed the correct blue. I did get the correct paint from Chrysler & repainted it several years ago. Gary (64 Dodge engine right side resized.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 64 Dodge engine right side resized.JPG (262KB - 59 downloads) | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9854 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 1959Dodge - 2022-09-22 8:00 AM Here is the way the "Street Wedge" came from the factory. Yes it came with the large Chrome Air cleaner & the Chrome valve covers So something like this (but with a Dodge-related sticker): And the engine colour (65 Coronet example) | ||
Sonoramic60 |
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Expert Posts: 1287 | Gary -- The experience with your '64 Polara 426-S is quite similar to mine with my '65 Sport Fury. By the summer of 1964, the '60 Fury that I had since May 1960 was definitely showing the effects of the abuse I had put it through, so I was in the market for a replacement. I was still into the drag racing mode at the time, which meant I didn't want just transportation, but an automobile that I could use in competition on Sundays, but also drive to school or work the rest of the week. I really wanted a Corvette with the fuel-injected 375 horse 327 CID mill but that was far beyond my means. Since I was basically a dyed-in-the-wool MOPAR guy, my attention went towards Plymouth and Dodge. Like you, I was put off by the horror stories about the drivability of the Hemi even in the street version, but the 426-S (AKA "Commando 426" or "Street Wedge") looked pretty good, especially since its debut in the 1964 model year had shown that it offered great performance with relatively easy maintenance. Also way back then, the NHRA had beaucoup "stock racing classes" (each based upon the ratio of car shipping weight vs advertised horsepower) and it looked as though the larger C-Body Fury line with the 365 HP 426 would fit very nicely into the NHRA C-Stock class which was restricted to cars within a 10.60 to 11.29 WT/HP ratio. The Sport Fury with the 426-S package and 4-speed had a very good 10.63 ratio and since I was a Fury freak (and still am), I special ordered a Medium Red Metallic with matching interior Sport Fury 2-door H/T, 4-speed, PB, tinted glass, no PS or AC and radio delete. I actually signed order on my dad's dining room table as the president and sales manager of the local Chrysler-Plymouth dealer seemed very anxious to get a car like that out on the streets and strips. On November 21, 1964, I was working on a building next to the dealership when a transport with a red SF pulled up. I had to tell the driver when he unloaded it, "Be careful with that car, sir; I think it's mine." He just said. "You be careful, son; that car can kill you." I took delivery about 1:00 PM that day and at about 8:00 that evening I had "stop light Grand Prix" with a '65 GTO on our Main Street; some three-four blocks later, he was in my rearview mirror and the speedo was indicating about 85. As you said, the 426-S was a complete package with high capacity radiator, heavy-duty brakes, heavy-duty suspension, sway bar, wide wheel rims, and oversize tires. These last two turned out to be problematic as the brakes would start to chatter every 500 miles or so. I'd take in to the shop and they'd turn the drums but I'd be back again after 500 miles. Since the car did have the 50000 mile warranty, I'd take it for required service to a dealer. On one such visit to a dealer in Albuquerque where I was in grad school, it was on a lift next to a New Mexico State Police Fury I 2-door post. As that 426 package included heavy-duty (read police car) brakes, I noticed I could put my fingers between the drums and the rims of the cop car, but on mine the wheels were snug up to the drums. I pointed that out to the tech and he called the shop foreman who said that I was in luck as the factory rep was there and he'd check it. This man took a quick look and just said, "Put the proper new wheels and tires on this young man's car immediately." Evidently the production line didn't pay attention to the build record. I must say that I never did do any legal drag racing with it as a honey blond came into my life before the race season started and I gave her all my attention. However, she liked the car and it was her daily driver, even with that heavy clutch and no PS, and in high heels to boot, so there was no problem when I acquired its twin (same engine, trans, accessories, and colors) in 2016. Joe Godec '57 Chrylser 300C, '60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Vette Fuelie, '65 Sport Fury 426-S/4-speed (1 of 502) PS, Interestingly, the 426-S package in 1965 with the TorqueFlite was a $483 option, but with the Chrysler A833 4-speed it cost $545 because a hole in the floorboards had to be cut out of each individual car to accommodate the shift linkage. That the opening was done manually is very evident on my car when viewed from underneath. Edited by Sonoramic60 2022-09-23 6:04 PM | ||
ToMopar |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1153 Location: D-70199 Heslach | @ Joe Interesting Story, too. | ||
mr426427 |
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Member Posts: 11 | i can probably help you out with a correct 64 426 block if you can tell me when your car was built. the build date would be on the bottom line of the fender tag. Joe in Wisconsin | ||
1959Dodge |
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Expert Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Thanks for the offer. I've been gone here for a while ass I had an SSD burn up on this pc and lost everything. The shop where I took the car said the wrong part came in for the tranny leak and they had to recorder it. They are going to attempt to fix the block leak when the car is there for the tranny leak. I did check with, www.cmengines.com and they quoted me $5996, " I may be able to find a 426 core to build but a 440 is no problem and a direct replacement. Our “Top of the Line” 426 or 440/425 horsepower “LOPEY” idle “Complete High Performance Pump Gas”, Balanced, Blueprinted, and Dyno Tested engine runs $5996.00 exchange. The core charge is $975.00 extra which can be refunded upon return of an acceptable rebuildable engine core”. A 426 may be slightly more." At any rate, we'll wait and see what the shop can do with mu current engine. It really does run Sweeeet. If anyone has inputs or experience with CME Engines, would appreciate any info about them. Thanks again, I will keep you posted. Maybe tomorrow I'll put up some info, pictures etc on my 1958 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible. Gary | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | a good while ago i thought of an iron head 383 from CME but with my retirement came severe shrinkage of my billfold , even the moths left but if i were to go for a new engine CME would be the top of my list for sure! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, later | ||
1959Dodge |
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Expert Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | OK, as promised, Here are the pictures of my 1958 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible. http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=77833 Gary | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | Sonoramic60 - 2022-09-23 2:14 PM Gary -- The experience with your '64 Polara 426-S is quite similar to mine with my '65 Sport Fury. By the summer of 1964, the '60 Fury that I had since May 1960 was definitely showing the effects of the abuse I had put it through, so I was in the market for a replacement. I was still into the drag racing mode at the time, which meant I didn't want just transportation, but an automobile that I could use in competition on Sundays, but also drive to school or work the rest of the week. I really wanted a Corvette with the fuel-injected 375 horse 327 CID mill but that was far beyond my means. Since I was basically a dyed-in-the-wool MOPAR guy, my attention went towards Plymouth and Dodge. Like you, I was put off by the horror stories about the drivability of the Hemi even in the street version, but the 426-S (AKA "Commando 426" or "Street Wedge") looked pretty good, especially since its debut in the 1964 model year had shown that it offered great performance with relatively easy maintenance. Also way back then, the NHRA had beaucoup "stock racing classes" (each based upon the ratio of car shipping weight vs advertised horsepower) and it looked as though the larger C-Body Fury line with the 365 HP 426 would fit very nicely into the NHRA C-Stock class which was restricted to cars within a 10.60 to 11.29 WT/HP ratio. The Sport Fury with the 426-S package and 4-speed had a very good 10.63 ratio and since I was a Fury freak (and still am), I special ordered a Medium Red Metallic with matching interior Sport Fury 2-door H/T, 4-speed, PB, tinted glass, no PS or AC and radio delete. I actually signed order on my dad's dining room table as the president and sales manager of the local Chrysler-Plymouth dealer seemed very anxious to get a car like that out on the streets and strips. On November 21, 1964, I was working on a building next to the dealership when a transport with a red SF pulled up. I had to tell the driver when he unloaded it, "Be careful with that car, sir; I think it's mine." He just said. "You be careful, son; that car can kill you." I took delivery about 1:00 PM that day and at about 8:00 that evening I had "stop light Grand Prix" with a '65 GTO on our Main Street; some three-four blocks later, he was in my rearview mirror and the speedo was indicating about 85. As you said, the 426-S was a complete package with high capacity radiator, heavy-duty brakes, heavy-duty suspension, sway bar, wide wheel rims, and oversize tires. These last two turned out to be problematic as the brakes would start to chatter every 500 miles or so. I'd take in to the shop and they'd turn the drums but I'd be back again after 500 miles. Since the car did have the 50000 mile warranty, I'd take it for required service to a dealer. On one such visit to a dealer in Albuquerque where I was in grad school, it was on a lift next to a New Mexico State Police Fury I 2-door post. As that 426 package included heavy-duty (read police car) brakes, I noticed I could put my fingers between the drums and the rims of the cop car, but on mine the wheels were snug up to the drums. I pointed that out to the tech and he called the shop foreman who said that I was in luck as the factory rep was there and he'd check it. This man took a quick look and just said, "Put the proper new wheels and tires on this young man's car immediately." Evidently the production line didn't pay attention to the build record. I must say that I never did do any legal drag racing with it as a honey blond came into my life before the race season started and I gave her all my attention. However, she liked the car and it was her daily driver, even with that heavy clutch and no PS, and in high heels to boot, so there was no problem when I acquired its twin (same engine, trans, accessories, and colors) in 2016. Joe Godec '57 Chrylser 300C, '60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Vette Fuelie, '65 Sport Fury 426-S/4-speed (1 of 502) PS, Interestingly, the 426-S package in 1965 with the TorqueFlite was a $483 option, but with the Chrysler A833 4-speed it cost $545 because a hole in the floorboards had to be cut out of each individual car to accommodate the shift linkage. That the opening was done manually is very evident on my car when viewed from underneath. Tha was the right way to inaugurate your Fury, Joe! | ||
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