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Generator to Alternator conversion.
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dels56
Posted 2022-08-29 4:44 PM (#623901)
Subject: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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I, like Dave am considering a conversion to an Alternator. I will use a Mopar Squareback 60 Amp unit. From where I am not sure as yet. I do have a core off my 74 Valiant part car when it comes time to purchase an Alternator. Attached is a photo of the generator system and my thoughts on the wiring of the Alternator system. Comments are welcome but do not worry about wire colours, the lack of fuseable link in the Alt to Bat connection, etc, this will all be looked after once I go for the real thing. One thing I would like to know, is there an electronic Voltage Regulator the looks like the OE mechanical regulator? I have used info and photos from wherever I could find them and I thank everyone for there posts.

Del S

Edited by dels56 2022-08-29 4:50 PM




(Alt Wiring 2.jpg)



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Attachments Alt Wiring 2.jpg (32KB - 94 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-08-30 12:09 AM (#623917 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: So. Cal		None of them are exactly the same, but the early '60's version is about as close as you can get.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204043646670
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-08-30 2:33 AM (#623922 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: RE: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
Del: I ordered a VR-101T Regulator for a 1962 PLYMOUTH SAVOY 5.2L 318cid V8 to go with my 7000112 1962 CHRYSLER NEW YORKER 6.7L 413cid V8 alternator

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/standard+motor+products,VR101T,vol...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/partsearch/?partnum=7000112





Edited by 56D500boy 2022-08-30 2:40 PM
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dels56
Posted 2022-08-30 11:22 AM (#623925 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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Thanks. I like the looks of the VR-101 or VR-263 better than the Electronic unit I have pictured and in my 74 Valiant parts car.

Del
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-08-30 2:42 PM (#623928 - in reply to #623925)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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dels56 - 2022-08-30 8:22 AM
Thanks. I like the looks of the VR-101 or VR-263 better than the Electronic unit


Del: The VR-101T looks like a 2/3 scale OE regulator.

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57chizler
Posted 2022-08-30 3:38 PM (#623930 - in reply to #623928)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: NorCal		The alternator and regulator shown in Del's pic are the '70-later. This alternator has two field connections and the regulator controls the ground to regulate the output voltage. The pre-'70 alternator has a single field connection and the regulator controls the input voltage to regulate the output voltage.

The later setup seems to be more stable, the early setup was known to cause a "wiggling" ammeter needle
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dels56
Posted 2022-08-30 4:50 PM (#623931 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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Chizler...What is your opinion of the wiring? I have purposely omitted the ammeter as I intend to convert it to a voltmeter a some point. I do not like that hot wire under the dash and want to get rid of it asap.

Del
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57chizler
Posted 2022-08-31 1:32 PM (#623947 - in reply to #623931)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: NorCal		Wiring looks good to me and the voltmeter is a good idea.
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dels56
Posted 2022-08-31 1:43 PM (#623948 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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Thanks. I am not a good wiring guy and needed confirmation.

Del
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dels56
Posted 2022-08-31 1:43 PM (#623949 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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Thanks. I am not a good wiring guy and needed confirmation. I will post the results when done.

Del
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Space Trukin Wagon
Posted 2022-08-31 11:13 PM (#623959 - in reply to #623949)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: Ohio		There are reproduction alternators available that use the vintage generator case with all modern alternator internals.
Maybe an option if you want the “look” of the vintage generator but upgrading to modern alternator.

They are available through JEGS Racing.

Here’s a link:
https://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/713/82112/10002/-1

Edited by Space Trukin Wagon 2022-08-31 11:15 PM




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dels56
Posted 2022-09-01 11:44 PM (#623979 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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I just stuck the square back alternator in place to see how it lined up with the drive pulleys. A little alteration with the belt sander on the inner mounting lug and it fits like it was meant to be there. I will post photos and details tomorrow when I’m done with mounting. I ordered a SMP VR101 regulator an am hoping it is here tomorrow so I can fire it up.

Del S

Edited by dels56 2022-09-01 11:48 PM
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57chizler
Posted 2022-09-02 1:10 PM (#623991 - in reply to #623979)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: NorCal		You have a square back with a single field terminal? The ones I've seen have two. If it has two field terminals, you'll have to ground one of the terminals to use the VR-101.
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dels56
Posted 2022-09-11 3:44 PM (#624174 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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The Alternator is mounted and wiring is all done. The old Alternator I used and thought it might be good, no way. I will buy a new Alternator this winter and put it on in the spring. When you look at the photos you don't need to comment on the threaded rod I use on the Alternator mount. I did that to be able to adjust the spacing so I could measure for the length of spacers I need to machine to length. My buddy how's lathe I use is away for a bit so these will get done in the spring. The shop is now closed for the winter.

I fabed an adapter plate to mount the VR101 Voltage Regulator and had to fab a tension brace for the Alternator.

Del S

Edited by dels56 2022-09-11 3:58 PM




(IMG_7868 2.JPG)



(Alt Wiring 4.jpg)



(IMG_7865 2.JPG)



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Attachments IMG_7868 2.JPG (42KB - 86 downloads)
Attachments Alt Wiring 4.jpg (39KB - 88 downloads)
Attachments IMG_7865 2.JPG (15KB - 85 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-09-11 4:05 PM (#624177 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: So. Cal		When I mounted an alternator on my 392 hemi to put into a '68 Barracuda, I put the alternator down lower and I think it looks better that way.



(392 Hemi Out of 68 Cuda.jpg)



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dels56
Posted 2022-09-11 7:34 PM (#624184 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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I would have liked to put it down a bit lower. However the water pump manifold on the 315 poly is a bit different than on the 354 that I have pictures of and possibly the 392. The difference would not allow the alternator to swivel downward.

del S
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-09-11 8:04 PM (#624186 - in reply to #624174)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Del: Sorry. I am still confused. I mocked my alternator up on my 315 hemi which has the same water manifold that your 315 poly has and I am convinced that I will be able to mount it low, not high. Note that in my case I placed the adjuster bar UNDER the alternator, just like Gary S. did with a 354.

This:





Edited by 56D500boy 2022-09-11 8:06 PM
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dels56
Posted 2022-09-11 11:04 PM (#624189 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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Hi Dave, The manifold, where mounting bolt that goes through the alternator, has a protrusion on the lower side of the bolt hole that won't allow the alternator to swing down or up. I don't have a pic of the manifold. I tried grinding a bit of the lobe on the alternator to make it work. Nope. If I spaced the alternator out to clear then the pulleys would not line up. I was not going to put the 2 groove pulley on at this time. If I used the front grove of the 2 groove pulley it would probably allow me to move the alternator forward enough. and have it mounted lower. I do kinda like the looks of the alternator where it now sits and I get lots of movement for belt installation and tensioning. End of season. Car is put away for the winter. I will think about what may happen in the spring.

Del S
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-09-11 11:49 PM (#624190 - in reply to #624189)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Sorry Del. My brain just can't understand that the water manifolds for the 315 hemi and the 315 poly are NOT 100% the same.

I thought that they were the same and PN was 1635 764.

Maybe the issue is the alternators are different. I am using one style and you, another. (??)

BTW: Good job on the voltage regulator mount.



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-09-11 11:51 PM




(56Dodge315HemiAndPolyWaterPumpHousingPN_1635764.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2022-09-13 12:42 PM (#624244 - in reply to #624190)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Del: Just found this photo of an alternator and bracket on a 383 installed in a 41 Plymouth Coupe. Looks similar to what wayfarer (Gary S)
was going for on that 354 (and what I am trying to emulate and improve on). All with the adjustment bar on the lower side of alternator.

I like the thickness of this mounting bracket:



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-09-13 12:47 PM




(AlternatorOnA383inA41PlymouthCoupe.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2022-09-13 6:58 PM (#624259 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: So. Cal		That thickness is overkill.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-09-13 8:25 PM (#624261 - in reply to #624259)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Powerflite - 2022-09-13 3:58 PM
That thickness is overkill.


But this thickness (my current mock-up) might be "under"kill



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-09-13 8:26 PM
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dels56
Posted 2022-09-13 11:47 PM (#624263 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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I used 1/4” aluminum plate for the brackets. A friend has a shop that does aluminum fabrication so I have good access to materials. Easy to work with. However the adjustment bar is 1/8” mild steel. A little to cut and shape. I have access to a lathe tomorrow so I will twist out the spacers but they will sit on the bench until spring when I get back on the project.
Del
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57chizler
Posted 2022-09-14 1:48 PM (#624273 - in reply to #624174)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: NorCal		Del, I'm going to repeat my warning...the VR-101 regulator is intended for use on alternators with a single field terminal (electromechanical in the diagram below). The wiring diagram you show with field terminals connected to both sides of the regulator won't work.

To make the VR-101 work with a dual field terminal alternator, you must apply key-on power to the regulator's IGN terminal then wire the FLD terminal to either one of the alternator field terminals, then ground the other alternator field terminal because the single field terminal alternator has one terminal grounded internally.

Or, better yet, get the correct regulator for the dual field terminal alternator that you showed in your original post on this thread.

Edited by 57chizler 2022-09-14 1:58 PM




(Alt wiring (Large).gif)



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Attachments Alt wiring (Large).gif (22KB - 88 downloads)
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dels56
Posted 2022-09-14 4:46 PM (#624275 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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Thank you Chizler, You are correct. I did some more reading on the vr101 and will choose one or the other in the spring when I get back on the car.

I just plowed through my inventory and I do have a Round Back and I also have a Mopar electronic regulator # 4111.990 I do prefer the looks of the VR101 over the electronic unit. It just looks like it belongs where the electronic would look out of place. A decision to be made later.

Del

Edited by dels56 2022-09-14 6:00 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-09-15 1:30 PM (#624282 - in reply to #624273)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		John: So the round back alternator that I am hoping to use (already bought it), should work with a VR-101 (already bought it)??





(RockAuto62ChryslerAlternatorAndRegulatorInvoice_redacted.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2022-09-16 12:13 AM (#624286 - in reply to #623901)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.


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if you use internally regulated alternator... its a lot simpler

https://www.proformparts.com/product-detail/440-471/alternator-110-a...

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57chizler
Posted 2022-09-16 1:24 PM (#624292 - in reply to #624282)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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56D500boy - 2022-09-15 10:30 AM

John: So the round back alternator that I am hoping to use (already bought it), should work with a VR-101 (already bought it)??


Yes if it is for a pre-'70 and has only one field terminal. Some 70-later round-backs have two field terminals.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-10-17 2:25 PM (#624929 - in reply to #624282)
Subject: Re: Generator to Alternator conversion.



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Not sure if this applies to the VR 101T alternator regulators or not but Bob Jennings (of Superbird fame), suggested in a video that I just watched that it is best to mount those small(ish) separate alternator regulators on a bracket to give them some space between the regulator and the firewall so they don't over heat.

The video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4_Z6lSzfA0

Two screen captures regarding the voltage regulator:



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-10-17 2:35 PM




(VR101StyleVoltageRegulatorMountedOnABracketToPreventOverheating.jpg)



(VR101StyleVoltageRegulatorMountedOnABracketToPreventOverheating_2.jpg)



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Attachments VR101StyleVoltageRegulatorMountedOnABracketToPreventOverheating.jpg (88KB - 79 downloads)
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