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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 345
 
| One for the books. I took the old girl on a road trip the other day, up the hills, around the corners and kept right up to the traffic on the highway, about 100 miles (160 Km). My wife enjoyed the ride and thought it was very comfortable and reasonably quiet for being 65 years old. We stopped at a music festival we’re we spent about 4 hours. Jumped back in the car and fired the old girl up and drove home without a hitch. In the garage and shut her down for the night.
Now this is where the fun began. The next morning I was going to take my granddaughter for a ride and what was normally a half spin of the crankshaft and away we would go......not now. Twisted her tail until the battery wore down without even a cough.
Since then I have......Pulled a plug wire and held it next to a spot on the engine where there is a good ground and cranked it over to see if there was spark. Nada, nix, nothing. OK then test the coil, tested good but I put a new one on anyway. Nothing! Checked the Ballast Resistor, 2.1 ohm. Spec is between 1.9 - 5.0. I had another one, tested at 2.8 ohm so I put that one on, nothing! Next was the distributor that was fitted with Pertronix 1383 Ignitor, the original ignitor which is now 1385LS. I had read that if they fail it is all at once and then nothing. On to building up another distributor. Everything new. Still nothing! OH ya, I had to do a bit of rewire as the Pertronix is wired a bit different. I tested ever wire Which are all new.
Tomorrow I will get help and hope he can pinpoint what I may have missed. I cannot figure what the #$@& happened to cause this problem. It ran so darn good and then gave it up. How can the simplest ignition system in the world cause this much grief? I may have to start drinking!
Del S |
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Expert
Posts: 4036
Location: Connecticut | Why don't you help us out a bit by telling what make of vehicle you have ? Plymouth ? Chrysler ? Desoto ? Also, when you use expressions like, 'twisted her tail', nobody knows what you're talking about. So a couple basic questions: Does it crank, but no start ? Does it crank at all ? Don't just throw parts at it. I don't know much about Pertronix, but I assume it replaces the points and condenser. Yes, they fail without warning. IMHO, I would remove the Pertronix and go back to a points and condenser. Ron
Edited by ronbo97 2022-07-10 9:00 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3393
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Couple of things about Pertronix, you should not use resisted voltage to the coil, you need full 12v to the coil, also you need resistor type plug wires to prevent rfi which can damage the Pertronix module. This is all in the wiring diagram and printed instructions.
Edited by Shep 2022-07-10 9:30 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 345
| OK fellows, I am 80 years old and when I worked on the bench, meaning I was a mechanic, in a Chrysler dealership. Twisting her tail meant you were starting the engine.
To answer your question, my car is a 1956 Dodge Custom Royal, 315 semi Hemi, a poly head, with a 4 barrel and Powerflite. And it has been running perfectly for quite some time with the Pertronix Ignition. After due consideration and not being able to get the car started, I switched out the Pertronix for a Points ignition system, changing the wiring back to the stock configuration with a ballast resistor. The ballast resistor is located between the negative coil terminal and the distributor connection. Positive side of the coil connects to battery via the horn relay. All the plug wires are resistor type.
Del
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9894
 
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Del: Sorry to hear about your non-start situation. I had one yesterday but that was because I had not kept the battery topped up with my Battery Tender Jr. and the generator hadn't generated enough. I have a jump pack and put that on and got it started right away.
I have been running a Pertronix 1383 (aka CH392) kit in my D500 dual point distributor since Feb. 2017. No issues whatsoever.
I have two or three back-up kits and a NOS 1642 392 IBK-4301A dual point (analogue) distributor.
I might have to start carrying spares unless you figure this out.
I am running a Pertronix coil that does NOT need a ballast resistor.
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Expert
Posts: 1739
Location: Alaska | Every vehicle i have owned with a 12 volt system and points is wired with the ballast resister between the ignition and the positive side of the coil. It doesn't sound right to have it on the negative side of the coil. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9647
Location: So. Cal | Correct, the ballast goes on the +12V input to the distributor/coil.
Some corrections for you: The "Pertronix module" isn't specific enough for proper information. You need to say which type of Pertronix module you are using. They are all different.
Pertronix I requires a ballast resistor ahead of it on the + input.
Pertronix II doesn't require a ballast on the input
Pertronix III also doesn't require a ballast on the input, and requires a CD type of coil.
A typical problem with the Pertronix - or any type of electronic ignition module, is getting the proper signal to the module. Therefore, the distance from the module to the to the lobes on the distributor is critical. Make that distance as small as possible without any chance of whacking it as it turns. I don't remember what gap Pertronix calls out, but you can look it up on their instructions. If you can make the gap smaller with no chance of it hitting, that will usually work better to give you a stronger signal.
FYI, I make and sell an HEI conversion that works with a stock Mopar electronic distributor. But you will need to swap out the intermediate shaft with a longer one from hotheads in order to do this. The benefits of this setup is, it is cheaper than using the Pertronix, especially if you already have the distributor, and is typically much more reliable.
http://www.designed2drive.com |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9894
Location: Lower Mainland BC | 58coupe - 2022-07-11 8:14 AM
Every vehicle i have owned with a 12 volt system and points is wired with the ballast resister between the ignition and the positive side of the coil. It doesn't sound right to have it on the negative side of the coil.
From the diagrams below, I would agree.
Edited by 56D500boy 2022-07-11 11:13 PM
 (ExampleBallastResistorWiring.jpg)
 (PertronixInstallationInstructions.jpg)
Attachments
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 ExampleBallastResistorWiring.jpg (67KB - 85 downloads)
PertronixInstallationInstructions.jpg (112KB - 91 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 580
| Looks like the coil resister is on the negative side of the coil going into the distributer on the top 8cyl. diagram. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 345
| Hi. Remember this thing was running great for the longest time then it decided it would take a time out. The 1st picture above that Dave posted is from the 1956 Service Manual which I also have. The ballast resistor is shown between the coil and Dizzy. The second pic, it is shown before the coil. Why, I don't know. The 3rd pic is Pertronix Coil connections. When I first received the Pertronix 1383 Kit I used a standard coil and connected as per their figure 3. Started first turn of the crankshaft every time, until.... My test on 2 new coils which I have tried in the last couple of days only test at 0.9 ohm. They are going back to the auto parts store.
Today I received a new Pertronix coil 40011, 1.5 ohm. Tested at 1.9 ohm. I just finished installing the new coil as per figure 2 above. No ballast resistor.
I have not tried to start the engine as the battery is low and now I have the charger on it. I could have had the charger on sooner but I forgot to plug it in.
Thanks for your help.
Del
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | The chart showing the '56 placement of the ballast was made before they figured out where it needed to be. My '56 Plymouths definitely had the ballast on the + side of the coil, despite what the diagrams depict. Dave shouldn't have posted that anomaly. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9894
Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2022-07-11 6:44 PM
The chart showing the '56 placement of the ballast was made before they figured out where it needed to be. My '56 Plymouths definitely had the ballast on the + side of the coil, despite what the diagrams depict. Dave shouldn't have posted that anomaly.
Who? What anomaly? (I just deleted it). 
By 1957, they had it figured out. I wonder whether there was a Factory Service Bulletin for the 1956 Dodges and Plymouths that detailed the change (??)
Edited by 56D500boy 2022-07-11 11:22 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 345
| Very interesting and thanks for clarifying. I would have continued to connect according to the diagram in the 56 manual if I had stuck with the points. Now with the Pertronix Ignitor and Coil I am sure I will be back on track.
Del |
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56 will not start
