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Regular
Posts: 68
Location: Seven Valleys, PA | I have read through all the threads I could find related to axles and axle swapping. The majority of them are about the axle width differences and what can swap in from that perspective.
What I have not found is what the stock pinion angle is and what the differences are in the other axles, especially the E-body rear axles which I understand have differently angled spring perches. (but different how?)
Any idea of how much the angle difference is, and what kinds of shims/wedges are needed (what degree)? Does an E-body rear pinion point upward or downward too much compared to '57-'59?
Thanks! |
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Expert
Posts: 1207
 
Location: Ponder, TX | If you are considering an E-body rear in a '55-'56 Plymouth or Dodge, you will find it too wide to use anything but a narrow tire to clear the fender cutouts. The previous owner of my '56 Fury parts car cut out the sheet metal to clear the tire and it looks terrible. |
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Expert
Posts: 3775
 
Location: NorCal | Here's the info from Doctor Diff:
A-body perch (level): pinion 5 degrees up
B-body perch (level): pinion 4 degrees up
C-body perch (level): pinion 3 degrees up
E-body perch (level): pinion 6 degrees up
57-61 FL perch (level): pinion 3 degrees up |
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Expert
Posts: 3393
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Every car is different regarding the as built pinion angle, ideally if the pinion is down say 1 degrees, the trans would be up 1 degrees or visa versa. You need an angle meter and check the existing angles. Car on level ground, or on a ramp lift ideally. Then you can decide what has to be done. There really is no "stock" angle, condition of rear springs, condition of mounts all can contribute to pinion angle variations. Plenty of info and diagrams online. |
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | I have found those angles are a little too much, they are of course based on the downward angle of the engine and trans installation. With a leaf spring car, the nose of the diff rises on acceleration, exaggerating that angle, in my shop we usually set the pinion angle about 2 degrees higher than the trans angle. On my 64 Maxwedge car, there was a lot more pinion rise than a street car, so we set the standing pinion angle much lower. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | Shep - 2022-02-25 1:06 PM
I have found those angles are a little too much, they are of course based on the downward angle of the engine and trans installation. With a leaf spring car, the nose of the diff rises on acceleration, exaggerating that angle, in my shop we usually set the pinion angle about 2 degrees higher than the trans angle. On my 64 Maxwedge car, there was a lot more pinion rise than a street car, so we set the standing pinion angle much lower.
true , you have to know the trans/motor angle when changing to different motors and rears , also
knowing @ how much wrap up you have with leaf springs , even with leaf spring traction bars . but with a small , lazy stock motor wrapup aint gonna be much----------------------------------later |
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Expert
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Location: NorCal | Shep - 2022-02-25 10:06 AM
I have found those angles are a little too much, they are of course based on the downward angle of the engine and trans installation. With a leaf spring car, the nose of the diff rises on acceleration, exaggerating that angle, in my shop we usually set the pinion angle about 2 degrees higher than the trans angle. On my 64 Maxwedge car, there was a lot more pinion rise than a street car, so we set the standing pinion angle much lower.
The OP asked for info related to a rear end swap only. The info I posted is the factory pinion angles used to maintain the original driveline geometry. |
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Expert 5K+
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| also depends on the leaf springs... how much flex those allow and even age...
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Agreed and understood, but 50 years later all those numbers have changed,, it may not be possible restore those settings without dialing some different numbers to achieve satisfactory angles. I was not disagreeing with your posted numbers, merely providing info for a work around. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | So to run an E-body axle, you'll likely need a 3 degree wedge, unless you have changed the geometry by lowering etc. You can pick either a 2 degree or 4 degree. The 4 degree might be better if you have a lot of torque in your motor, but the 2 degree would be less intrusive. |
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Regular
Posts: 68
Location: Seven Valleys, PA | Thanks all for your input. I swapped in this e-body axle several years ago but the car has been off the road. Original engine and trans have since been removed and reinstalled after engine rebuild. Now I am getting it back together and want to make sure the driveline is ok.
Everything (mechanically) is in place and running.
Based on the facts and measurements below, it APPEARS I need to tilt the pinion downward no more than 2 degrees, which sorta jives with what Powerflite posted above. If anyone cares to review and comment, I would appreciate it.
Current setup:
- Stock 383 + cast iron Torqueflite
- New motor and transmission mounts (sourced from places like Atlas / Bernbaum, etc.)
- Front ball and trunnion U-joint was replaced with a telescopic yoke and flange with conventional cross U-joint (I was talked into it by the driveshaft balancing place 15 years ago)
- New Detroit Eaton OEM-spec leaf springs
- 1970 E-body rear
- Diamondback Auburn HR78-15 radial tires
- No seats, door panels or headliner installed
- Completely empty trunk
- 5 gallons of gas in the tank
- Torsion bars adjusted for proper front height (although will have to be re-adjusted once the rest of the car is put together and rear springs break in)
Here are the angles, as best as I could measure them, using a magnetic base gravity-style dial angle gauges with the car on my perfectly level (amazingly) garage floor:
1) Pinion points up about 5 degrees (which is close to what 57chizler / DrDiff provided above). In some places, like the flat vertical spot on the back of the axle housing next to the "pumpkin" the measurement is 4 degrees. Its hard to find a good spot that is exactly parallel or perpendicular to the pinion (I did not remove the driveshaft)
2) Driveshaft goes uphill from there about 2 degrees
3) Trans/crankshaft goes uphill from there about 3 degrees. This was another difficult measurement because the crankshaft pulley is too close to the radiator fan shoud to get a good reading across it, but I used a skinny flat bar and sanity checked this reading with places like the oil pans, valve covers, and parking bracke drum.
Diagram attached.
By the way, if anyone wants to see the photos of my DIY progress on this car over the past several years, if you have Facebook, they are in a public album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202849938746234
Regards,
Lou
 (PinionAngle.jpg)
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 PinionAngle.jpg (24KB - 113 downloads)
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Regular
Posts: 68
Location: Seven Valleys, PA | BTW - the only thing that concerns me is that if I shim the axle to point the pinion downward another 2 degrees, the the alignment of all three compponents may become almost perfectly straight-aligned, and I read somewhere that this is actually not good and you should have some offset to avoid vibrations. True? |
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Expert
Posts: 3393
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | True, some angle difference tends to cancel excess vibration and decreases u joint wear. Btw, 3 degrees downward angle is common to many engine/trans installation angles. You are real close to perfect.
Edited by Shep 2022-02-27 7:30 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | I believe you want the angular difference trans. vs diff. at 1-3 degrees in operation so the ujoints have some flex but not so much to cause vibration. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| fivespeedv8 - 2022-02-27 5:05 PM BTW - the only thing that concerns me is that if I shim the axle to point the pinion downward another 2 degrees, the the alignment of all three compponents may become almost perfectly straight-aligned, and I read somewhere that this is actually not good and you should have some offset to avoid vibrations. True? Yes, you dont want a perfectly straight driveshaft, doubtful that will happen, 3 to me is cutting it to close to pushing up a few degress, it could push up 2-3 depending on your springs and how much you accelerate. |
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Expert
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Location: NorCal | fivespeedv8 - 2022-02-27 2:01 PM
1) Pinion points up about 5 degrees (which is close to what 57chizler / DrDiff provided above). In some places, like the flat vertical spot on the back of the axle housing next to the "pumpkin" the measurement is 4 degrees. Its hard to find a good spot that is exactly parallel or perpendicular to the pinion (I did not remove the driveshaft)
The only place to accurately measure the pinion angle built into the housing is in relation to the spring perch. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6498
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Really? Get the Tranny degrees, down usually, then match the pinion, up usually, with the weight on the wheels at stock ride height. Done. |
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Expert
Posts: 3393
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Correct. |
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Regular
Posts: 68
Location: Seven Valleys, PA | I got a pair of 2° wedges on Amazon for something like $16. I'll try them out and re-measure the angles.
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Expert
Posts: 3775
Location: NorCal | mstrug - 2022-02-28 5:33 PM
Really? Get the Tranny degrees, down usually, then match the pinion, up usually, with the weight on the wheels at stock ride height. Done.
You and others obviously missed the highlighted built into the housing. The numbers I posted are the angle built into the housing for comparison between the C-body and E-body housings. The actual pinion angle and its pedantic discussion is a whole other thing only relevant if the installation varies from stock.
Jeez, ask what time it is and some wanna tell you how to build a CLOCK. |
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Rear Axle Pinion Angles?
