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| Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Fender/VIN Tag and Broadcast Sheet Decoding | Message format |
frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064   | . The 24th position on the Detroit Hamtramck cowl tag translates POWER PLANT: 523 = Sales Code 373 = V8 361CID 4BBL 305HP (Dodge D500 – Standard on DeSoto Fireflite) 524 = Sales Code 374 = V8 361CID 2/4BBL 320HP (Dodge Super D500) 525 = Sales Code 375 = V8 361CID EFI 333HP Correct me if I’m wrong  | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054  Location: PL / EU | here are some examples and an attempt to understand the M code stamping system first example: 57 Windsor power steering - standard on New Yorker and Saratoga, optional on Windsor power brakes - optional on all the only one stamped is M5 = 1 We previously agreed that M5 = 1 is undercoating. So it follows that the remaining IBM codes are not stamped on the tag ( accessories, power brakes, power steering, padded dash, mirror, solex). Surprisingly, solex is not shown on the tag. (57-1a.JPG) Attachments ----------------  57-1a.JPG (68KB - 409 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | second example (double): 58 Dodges power steering and power brakes - optional on all "A" card - no digit in the undercoating IBM card- not ordered = M5 code blank other options ordered: power seat, accessories groups, heater, dual exhaust and solex. Solex is showed in the tag SG=3 but in the IBM card is code 7? Also we see M1-3, M2=3. Is the M2 code it power pack/dual exhaust? If accessories and heater are not stamped only remains power seat. M1=3 -> power seat?, probably not as we will see in the third example. "B" card - the only one stamped is M5 = 1 We previously agreed that M5 = 1 is undercoating. So it follows that the remaining IBM codes are not stamped on the tag (heater, airfoam seat, back-up lights, wipers). (58-1a.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 58-1a.JPG (150KB - 398 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | third example (double): 59 Dodge and Plymouth power steering and power brakes - optional on all "A" card Dodge - M2=3 match to the power pack, as in the previous example. EW=4 electic window M5=1 undercoating other options ordered: power seat, swivel seat, accessories groups, headlamp dimmer, mirror, hood ornament, solex (not showed in the tag, again!) "B" card Plymouth - M2=1 ? power pack? but there is a number 2 on the IBM card M4=9 toailet seat M5=1 undercoating power pack option not shown on the tag? other options ordered: power steering, power brakes, swivel seat, accessories groups, heater, mirror, radio, padded dash, solex (not showed in the tag, again!) Edited by RDP 2021-02-13 1:30 AM (59-1a.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 59-1a.JPG (190KB - 437 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | |||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Yes, of course – I remember Nathan's ' 57 Chrysler – below is a photo of cowl tag and the car (pictures 1 & 2). This Chrysler has all the solex tinted glass, but the SG space is empty, so I assumed M2 = 9 is an option related to this. In 1957, and only on the Chrysler 2door Hardtops, a new option was introduced – the Large Shaded Rear Window. It could be installed provided that all other glass were tinted. I guessed that M2 = 9 is all solex tinted glass and a large shaded rear window. For comparison, on pictures 3 and 4 (another Chrysler), column SG = 5, but column M2 is empty: that is, the car does not have a large shaded rear window, but has all the solex tinted glass… I think that it is not necessary to try to equate all the M codes of different years and divisions together: each brand and each model year should be considered separately… (1.jpg) (2.jpg) (3.JPG) (4.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 1.jpg (162KB - 404 downloads) 2.jpg (234KB - 391 downloads) 3.JPG (58KB - 409 downloads) 4.JPG (77KB - 401 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | |||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | '59 Fury 4d HT with under hood pad option and M5=1 501 undercoating with fiberglass pad under hood - $12,85 no radio, no PB, no PS, no padded dash, with alu sportone inserts, heater, undercoating and two tone paint (PF (1).jpg) (PF (2).jpg) (PF (4).jpg) (PF (5).jpg) (PF (6).jpg) Attachments ---------------- PF (1).jpg (201KB - 420 downloads) PF (2).jpg (173KB - 402 downloads) PF (4).jpg (222KB - 403 downloads) PF (5).jpg (136KB - 399 downloads) PF (6).jpg (229KB - 391 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . It seems like the padded dash is present... | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Left front fender trim is from the Belvedere series!!! Some guessing about Fury 4door Hardtop trim codes: 321 = Blue 322 = Green 323 = Tan ??? 324 = Red and Gray 325 = Gold ??? I was wrong about padded dash: this one would be like ribbed on the picture below (1.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 1.JPG (81KB - 386 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . (Belvedere Side Trim.JPG) (Fury Side Trim.JPG) (Sport Fury Side Trim.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Belvedere Side Trim.JPG (136KB - 396 downloads) Fury Side Trim.JPG (148KB - 419 downloads) Sport Fury Side Trim.JPG (88KB - 415 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | The build sheet come from 56 Plymouth which I found in the net, unfortunately there was no pic of the data plate. Below is the reconstructed appearance of the data plate bottom line. (56 belvedere 2dHT.jpg) (56 belve.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56 belvedere 2dHT.jpg (153KB - 421 downloads) 56 belve.jpg (41KB - 388 downloads) | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10025  Location: So. Cal | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . It might be like this: SG = 1 = 361 = Solex Tinted Glass M3 = 4 = 424 = Outer Sun Visor and Roof Drip Moulding M5 = 6 = 446 = White Plastic Steering Wheel M8 = 3 = 353 = Powerflite Transmission M9 = 8 = Delivery Route All other items did not stamp… (1.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1.jpg (25KB - 384 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10277  Location: Lower Mainland BC | RDP - 2021-03-06 7:34 AM Nathan, maybe you found the car production broadcast sheet. It contained more information. They used several different papers in the production process; IBM card, car production broadcast, built sheet like the one above and maybe something else we don't know. Plymouth built sheet is the same as mine. It is also carbon copy type. Perforated tape is missing on both sides, and there is only one card. My sheet has four or five copies. It is very fragile and pages are hard to count. This is the one shown by Igor on the first page of this thread. This one | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | 1956 Windsor 4d sedan, PF, PS, PB, heater, w. washer (1956 Chrysler Windsor 4 door (4).jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1956 Chrysler Windsor 4 door (4).jpg (211KB - 382 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Robert - Thanks for posting! Cannot see M9 space number... I have guessed earlier about M8=8 (for the '56 Windsor Powerflite) and M8=4 (for '56 New Yorker) It seems that is not showing availability of an Automatic Transmission - I was wrong...Now I have no idea what is that... Your car have same options except M8=4 (and M9 which is unviewalable...) But the windshield washer is present on your car too... Can you find out more complete equipment listing of this car? By the way: what is the upholstery code 090? The '56 Windsor Sedans have not it... Same question to the Paint Code 261... Is that CROCUS YELLOW? Is that Spring Special model? (but SCHED space shows 0627 - June 27, 1956...) Or is it a trick question? (1.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 1.JPG (144KB - 379 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-03-18 12:01 PM Can you find out more complete equipment listing of this car? It will be hard to do... https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Chrysler-Windsor-4-door-hard-top/31345... frwl - 2021-03-18 12:01 PM By the way: what is the upholstery code 090? The '56 Windsor Sedans have not it... Same question to the Paint Code 261... Is that CROCUS YELLOW? Is that Spring Special model? (but SCHED space shows 0627 - June 27, 1956...) I recently bought an upholstery book, but it was lost in shipping  | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Hello Robert – a little idea for decoding M8=8: Your cowl tag shows M8=8 and M9=8; Your IBM card shows two EIGHTS: 428 and alone 8 in the end of the row on the back side; The codes 42x on the IBM card describes the MOULDING PACKAGES; Supposedly, that the last 8 is a delivery route, the code 428 might be say to us about of some exterior appointments… The 1956 Chrysler Windsor has had the next EXTRA COST exterior appointments (according to the specifications): Windshield Upper Molding Drip Rail Roof Molding Front Bumper Guards Left Outside Rear View Mirror Rear License Plate Frame Exhaust Pipe Extension Chrome Roof Plate (which located on the C-pillar – Sedan only, I think) You said what your car HAS NOT equipped with first four positions of these: Windshield Upper Molding Drip Rail Roof Molding Front Bumper Guards Left Outside Rear View Mirror If so, I just wonder: what could it be on the Crocus Yellow Sedan that cowl tag you posted above? I mean your M8=8 code vs. M8=4 on that car? It might be Sun Cap Visor (I see a strip of the dirt on the edge above the windshield – the moulding has been removing); Or a Front Bumper Guards… By the way according to the ’56 specifications they should be ordered altogether only: sun cap visor, drip rail moulding and C-pillar chrome plate)… Other question remains: what the EXTRA exterior appointments has been installed on your car from ’56 specs? (front view.JPG) Attachments ---------------- front view.JPG (171KB - 386 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Like thise one? Oh, it is very expensive... (01.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 01.JPG (176KB - 373 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | |||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-03-05 6:42 PM . It might be like this: SG = 1 = 361 = Solex Tinted Glass M3 = 4 = 424 = Outer Sun Visor and Roof Drip Moulding M5 = 6 = 446 = White Plastic Steering Wheel M8 = 3 = 353 = Powerflite Transmission M9 = 8 = Delivery Route All other items did not stamp…
Let's consider the M8 column. You said M8 = powerflite. What we see, when we check Dodge and Plymouth. All plates show 3, except one showing 2. Unfortunately, information on this car is not available. This neither confirms nor deny. But let's check the Chrysler and DeSoto. All Chrysler plates shows 4, except one showing 8. For New Yorkers PF is standard, but second Windsor also show 4 and and comes with PF. Also all DeSoto's are equipped with PF but one shows 3 on the tag. Conclusion? M8 probably does not mean trans. (11.JPG) (10.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 11.JPG (110KB - 355 downloads) 10.JPG (86KB - 345 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . And the M1 = 2 as well... I've never seen the code M1 = 2; M1 = 5, M1 = 7, and M1 = 8 ONLY... Besides the next codes (1, 4, 6, 9) in the column 35x are present in the IBM card, but not stamped on the cowl tag...  | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Maybe M8 = 2 means the Manual Transmission with Overdrive? M8 = 1 = 3speed Manual Transmission M8 = 2 = 3speed Manual Transmission with Overdrive M8 = 3 = 2speed Automatic Transmission Powerflite  | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | Another '56 Chrysler sheet, St. Regis ALCOHOL GRP B ??????? (56NY.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 56NY.JPG (48KB - 339 downloads) | ||
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| Fireflite56 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 345 Location: Wisconsin | Disclaimer: I have only studied the '56 DeSotos and cannot comment on similarities or cross-references to other makes from the LA plant. I finally got around to scanning in the documentation for one of my LA cars. As you can see, I have a lot for this car. This is a '56 DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman 2 door hardtop. Mostly white with an iridescent green sweep and roof. It has trumpet horn, standard radio/antenna, tinted (Solex) glass, power seat, power windows, and the optional all-leather interior. I have decoded the car to the best of my ability. Based on many '56 DeSotos I have information for, I have a good idea of what each of the top-line codes mean, which may or may not mean the same as other makes. I have seen discussions indicating that SG-1 = Solex Glass. On the Detroit DeSotos, this I have found to be true. However, on the LA DeSotos I believe that SG is the Accessory Group code. You'll note that this car has no number under SG but it does have Solex glass all around, which supports my theory. Here is my current best guess at what the top-line codes mean on an LA-built '56 DeSoto. This is based on looking at a number of different cars. What I need to do at some point is sit down with all the data I have and basically try to disprove my theory to see if it's correct. SG = Accessory Group EW = Electric Window Lifts M1 = ? M2 = Air Conditioning M3 = Suncap Visor (standard on Sportsman models) M4 = ? M5 = Power Seat M6 = Color Sweep M7 = ? M8 = Power Brakes (standard on Fireflite, but note that it's always coded on Detroit cars) M9 = Power Steering (standard on Fireflite) (Firewall Tag_a.jpg) (Firewall Tag Decoded_a.jpg) (Build Sheet_a.jpg) (Build Card_a.jpg) (IMG_20180329_193553138_a.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Firewall Tag_a.jpg (156KB - 344 downloads) Firewall Tag Decoded_a.jpg (127KB - 347 downloads) Build Sheet_a.jpg (186KB - 344 downloads) Build Card_a.jpg (162KB - 334 downloads) IMG_20180329_193553138_a.jpg (123KB - 342 downloads) | ||
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| jpmopar |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 468 Location: Southwest VA | Here the tag from my LA built '59 Fury 4-door hardtop. (VIN[1].jpg) Attachments ---------------- VIN[1].jpg (130KB - 341 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | jpmopar - 2021-04-22 6:16 AM Here the tag from my LA built '59 Fury 4-door hardtop. Thanks Jim, I know your tag. It would be nice to see IBM card (I remember, you don't have it) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | Fireflite56 - 2021-04-21 10:47 PM I finally got around to scanning in the documentation for one of my LA cars. As you can see, I have a lot for this car. This is a '56 DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman 2 door hardtop. Thanks for sharing, David. These are very good documents. Your information and theory are very interesting. It takes a lot of these kits to draw conclusions, but we keep trying I noticed that the sheet is missing the code 1 for IBM card . I am also interested in the letter "S". It also appears in 56 Chrysler sheet, which I showed yesterday, and 56 Plymouth showed earlier. But it's not in my sheet. Edited by RDP 2021-04-22 1:23 PM (DS1.JPG) Attachments ---------------- DS1.JPG (105KB - 330 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | From the Plymouth codes it can be said that: 345 - 362 - 366 - electric windows 2 door 383 - airfoam front & rear seat 385 - 391 - accessory group 405 - 412 - 424 - trim package 447 - deluxe steering wheel But that's just guesswork! If the sheet codes correspond directly to the data plate codes , it looks like this (but I have doubts). Edited by RDP 2021-04-22 1:28 PM (DS2.JPG) Attachments ---------------- DS2.JPG (62KB - 336 downloads) | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10025 Location: So. Cal | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . David (aka Fireflite 56): All Forwardlook 1955-1961 DeSotos have not Power Steering and Power Brakes as Standard Equipment EXCEPT: Only 1956, 1957, 1958 Adventurers have Power Brakes as standard; Only one season of 1959 model year Fireflites and Adventurers have Power Steering and Power Brakes both as standard; You may check this fact in every year DeSoto brochure For example: This ’56 DeSoto has Power Seat, but the space M5 is empty (by the way it has not Power Steering) Look at this thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67614&... But it has a Power Brakes and M8=4 (although I’m not sure about this because all power brakes option should have ended on 5) Anyway – thank for this interesting article (1.jpg) (2.JPG) (3.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1.jpg (109KB - 331 downloads) 2.JPG (112KB - 341 downloads) 3.jpg (101KB - 338 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Robert: it is very interesting sheet; Difference between your car (385) and that car (387) might be a Radio (with or without Rear Speaker); And your code 428 vs code 423 of this car… plus codes 451 and 469 on yours… So, what we have: M8 = 8 (428) – Your car M8 = 4 (424) – Dieter’s Car M8 = 3 (423) – Alcohol Car Maybe Alcohol Group includes Antifreeze and non-freezing Windshield Washer fluid? | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | I would like to see data tag "alcohol car" frwl - 2021-04-23 3:50 PM . Robert: you mean 362 – Power Windows instead 366… 361-362 solex glass / e-z vision group Edited by RDP 2021-04-23 3:34 PM (366.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 366.JPG (14KB - 323 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Where these codes are from? 1956 Plymouth codes do not have these Very interesting know all listing, please You know my PM; Thanks in advance  | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | '59 Plymouth Sport Fury, solex, padded dash, DeLuxe steering wheel,power steering, power brakes, swivel seat, flittesweep deck, 361 4-barrel, radio, clock (M294102258.JPG) Attachments ---------------- M294102258.JPG (74KB - 311 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | |||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | frwl - 2021-05-23 12:17 PM Looks like M2 = 1 means a Power Steering, as we knew it early… Probably yes, cars number 100 and 103 are not equipped with PS. M2 is empty. There is no information about three cars, others cars have PS. (59 ply.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 59 ply.JPG (49KB - 310 downloads) | ||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Do you have some information about Solex Glass on the car number 101 from you table? Is this tinted windshield only, all windows or all windows with shaded windshield together? Are the cars 95, 102 and 103 station wagons? Thanks | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | M1 - 8 = manual tailgate or/with outside spare tire 2-seat wagon the table is attached Attachments ---------------- 56-59 LA tag.xlsx (50KB - 310 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . Here it is. I found this page in the net. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1956-chrysler-windsor-color-1... So, there were four Spring Special color combinations and only one Copperglow / Black upholstery offered with each of them. Unfortunately no trim code on it. We also have a cowl tag with Spring Special paint code 261 and trim 090; I would guess this trim 090 is Spring Special trim too… (1.jpg) (2.jpg) (3.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1.jpg (127KB - 259 downloads) 2.jpg (144KB - 257 downloads) 3.jpg (211KB - 246 downloads) | ||
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| RDP |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1054 Location: PL / EU | Here is a picture of the 57 Dodge cowl tag posted in this thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=76842&... The sequence number caught my attention. I remember that number. Some time ago I got it from Igor (frwl). Unfortunately, there was no photo, only the numbers. Both cars have the same sequence number! Obviously, they have a different scheduled date. After all, it's an amazing coincidence to see something like this, with very few number of known tags. If you want, you can see the numbers from all we know LA tags in attached table. Attachments ---------------- 56-59 LA tag.xlsx (51KB - 204 downloads) | ||
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| 22mafeja |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 717  Location: Finland | |||
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| frwl |
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Expert Posts: 2064 | . . Hello Robert! Visible options from Dieter’s Chrysler: 1956 Chrysler New Yorker Accessory Group No. 3 – Custom Custom Steering Wheel – Yes White Side Wall Tires – Yes Rear License Plate Frame – can’t see Prismatic Mirror – can’t see 1956 Chrysler New Yorker Accessory Group No. 5 – Convenience Vanity Mirror – can’t see Solex Tinted Glass – Yes Left Outside Rear View Mirror – Yes From Dieter’s Chrysler IBM card: Could the codes 453 and 455 be an Accessory Groups? BTW: You told that your car has Safety Group No. 1 and your IBM card has code 451 on it... (Dieter's Car.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Dieter's Car.jpg (191KB - 197 downloads) | ||
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