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Marine Hemi info...
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-12-20 2:55 PM (#606911)
Subject: Marine Hemi info...


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Its a 354 Hemi... in a boat layout.

These engines should work in cars if you strip the "boat" stuff off... (Intake, water pump etc).  maybe compression ratio is down?

 

 

 

 





(ChryslerMarinePg1-2.jpg)



(ChryslerMarine4.jpg)



(ChryslerMarinePg9-10.jpg)



(ChryslerMarinePg11-12.jpg)



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Attachments ChryslerMarinePg1-2.jpg (186KB - 247 downloads)
Attachments ChryslerMarine4.jpg (201KB - 217 downloads)
Attachments ChryslerMarinePg9-10.jpg (184KB - 239 downloads)
Attachments ChryslerMarinePg11-12.jpg (212KB - 249 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2020-12-20 3:43 PM (#606914 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		Some marine engines had cams grinded for opposite rotation Mike, otherwise I see no reason that it would'nt work.
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antonellomopar
Posted 2020-12-20 5:12 PM (#606919 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...


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Location: milano, italy		You will have to change crankshaft. Marine engines dont have the provision to use the standard timing chain and gear. Instead the camshaft is gear driven. At least so was the 354 marine hemi that I sied in a 35 Ford hot rod. It had dual four barrel intake and mechainical lifters
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-12-20 7:13 PM (#606922 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: So. Cal		Thanks for posting this. It's nice to see what they called it. I never would have guessed that they called them the "Imperial V" or "Royal V". Neat. It's also funny that back then "Special" seems to mean "Not Special" since the higher power version doesn't have this designation.

Everyone says to change the crank, but I believe that you could weld up that area and create the proper shoulder for the timing gear for probably less money than trying to get a new crank and ship it to you. I have a marine crank sitting in my garage that I intend to do that to. The truck, industrial & marine engines use the old style water pump and timing cover arrangement on the front of the block that's from the '51-'54 car era, so the adapters made for those motors will work on the marine too, once you remove the marine gear housing. It's possible to swap newer heads onto them as well so you don't have to use a wet intake, but shouldered dowels are necessary that you can get from hot heads. If you do, I believe you will use whatever head gasket is made for the head, not the block, but it's best to check it out thoroughly first. Probably the best part of a marine motor is they all came with solid lifters and adjustable rockers.

Edited by Powerflite 2020-12-20 7:19 PM
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57burb
Posted 2020-12-21 9:27 AM (#606932 - in reply to #606919)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: DFW, TX		Your ads are for Marine versions of the Spitfire flathead inline-6 (at 413 cubic inch! - never heard of that displacement), the Dodge 270 Hemi, and the Chrysler 354 Hemi.

The Chrysler-based Marine engine is basically an Industrial 331/354 Hemi with modified intake, exhaust, and cooling systems for marine use. That makes sense, as the performance envelope is about the same - long duration, high load, and moderate RPM.

As mentioned, the crankshafts in marine engines typically use a gear drive for the camshaft. I've never seen anyone machine a marine crank to use a timing chain, but that's an interesting solution if it works!

Many of the camshafts will be reverse rotation, but even if standard rotation, they would be very tame for a car.

The heads use sodium-filled exhaust valves, which are very heavy. They are used because they efficiently remove heat from the valve seat in these long duration / high load / low rpm scenarios. But they're not good for "high performance."

Then there's the matter that you have to source all the front dress and accessories for use in a car.

IMO, they are mostly an excellent source for blocks, adjustable rocker assemblies, and cool valve covers but they require quite a few changes for use in cars. If you're planning to go through and replace most of that stuff anyway, then they're just fine.

Edited by 57burb 2020-12-21 9:36 AM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-12-21 11:05 AM (#606933 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...


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I guess i should scan the whole thing, there are like 5 more engines.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-12-21 11:37 AM (#606934 - in reply to #606933)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: N.W. Fla.		A critical question that hasn't been asked it...where is the engine located? If it'd been used in salt water w/o a closed cooling system it'll be rusted out from the inside. The sodium filled valves can be replaced by using car guides and valves.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-12-21 11:48 AM (#606935 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: N.W. Fla.		Note that the engines are Bass Ackwards, the dizzy is in the front......
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-12-21 1:57 PM (#606940 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: RE: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: So. Cal		Yes Mike, please upload more of it if you have it. This is the first time I have seen this. Has anyone ever seen the Dodge "Chrysler Marine" valve covers on the Royal V before? I haven't. It looks like the "S" stands for special, and the "P" stands for performance as both "Special motors have the "S", and the higher power motor has "SP" - Special Performance.

I own an Imperial V Special 45S-3 myself so I had a nice set of valve covers & heads with the sodium valves but I sold them off for more than I paid for the motor. I still have the motor & adjustable valvetrain. My motor was used exclusively in salt water and its jackets aren't any worse than a typical automotive motor. In fact, the freeze plugs are still good in it. I'm planning to put the motor into my '39 International unless I end up putting a diesel motor into it instead.

Edited by Powerflite 2020-12-21 2:41 PM




(Nathan Marine Covers.jpg)



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Attachments Nathan Marine Covers.jpg (92KB - 196 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-12-21 1:58 PM (#606941 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: So. Cal		This is an ad for the industrial motor.



(Chrysler Industrial Ad.jpg)



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Attachments Chrysler Industrial Ad.jpg (451KB - 187 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-12-21 2:09 PM (#606942 - in reply to #606941)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Powerflite - 2020-12-21 10:58 AM
This is an ad for the industrial motor.


The Chrysler advertising department definitely liked the image of strong muscular horses to represent the power of the new double rocker ("hemi") engine. This one is from the 1951 FirePower engine brochure:

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73594&...



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Powerflite
Posted 2020-12-21 2:51 PM (#606944 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: So. Cal		Nice video of the marine hemi in action and a better shot of the rear of the motor. As stated previously, the front of the motor handled the main drive function. The rear has a pulley on it, probably to drive a generator or other accessory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Bit2lAhTY




(57 Marine 354 Hemi Rear.jpg)



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Attachments 57 Marine 354 Hemi Rear.jpg (74KB - 186 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-12-21 3:09 PM (#606946 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: So. Cal		It seems that the reason I've never seen the Dodge "Chrysler Marine" valve covers is because they don't exist. Chrysler didn't make them exactly as they advertised, apparently. It looks like they chose to put the logo on the exhaust manifolds instead of the valve covers. Also, I wonder if the M45SP originally came with chrome valve covers as they show it. The motor in the second picture has them, so maybe they did.



(Dodge Marine M44S.jpg)



(DSC08098.jpg)



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Attachments Dodge Marine M44S.jpg (142KB - 191 downloads)
Attachments DSC08098.jpg (130KB - 216 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2020-12-21 5:01 PM (#606949 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...


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the weight on these things are crazy... 1000lbs for the 354...
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-12-21 6:45 PM (#606954 - in reply to #606940)
Subject: RE: Marine Hemi info...



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Powerflite - 2020-12-21 12:57 PM

. My motor was used exclusively in salt water and its jackets aren't any worse than a typical automotive motor. In fact, the freeze plugs are still good in it.
I suspect a closed cooling system. A buddy bought one that wasn't & what should have been solid iron was rusting through.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-12-21 6:46 PM (#606955 - in reply to #606949)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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mikes2nd - 2020-12-21 4:01 PM

the weight on these things are crazy... 1000lbs for the 354...
Hemis are heavy & you throw on all the extra stuff...
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-12-21 10:33 PM (#606960 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: Muskego, WI		Interesting stuff. I know that the flathead 413 straight 6 was also used in heavy duty trucks in the 1950s. They made huge, diesel-like torque at low diesel-like RPM except they drank a lot more than a diesel.
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Mopar1
Posted 2021-01-21 11:42 AM (#607961 - in reply to #606946)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Powerflite - 2020-12-21 2:09 PM

It seems that the reason I've never seen the Dodge "Chrysler Marine" valve covers is because they don't exist. Chrysler didn't make them exactly as they advertised, apparently. \.
Actually 2 versions exist. 1 with chrysler in cursive and 1 with it in block letters. Photos of both in Tex Smith's Hemi book.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2021-01-21 2:18 PM (#607973 - in reply to #606946)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...


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Powerflite - 2020-12-21 3:09 PM

It seems that the reason I've never seen the Dodge "Chrysler Marine" valve covers is because they don't exist. Chrysler didn't make them exactly as they advertised, apparently. It looks like they chose to put the logo on the exhaust manifolds instead of the valve covers. Also, I wonder if the M45SP originally came with chrome valve covers as they show it. The motor in the second picture has them, so maybe they did.


Nathan. The valve covers I sold you came off a 270 CID marine engine.

Greg
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-01-21 2:55 PM (#607978 - in reply to #606911)
Subject: Re: Marine Hemi info...



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Location: So. Cal		Thanks for the info Greg. Those were plain, un-embossed, as well.
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-07-16 1:24 PM (#622906 - in reply to #607978)
Subject: 1955 Chrysler 331 Marine Engine In A 1955 ChrisCraft 21foot Cobra



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Location: Lower Mainland BC		.
Bumped into this My Classic Boat, er, Car video this AM. The owner even fires it up. Sounds great.

Me grabbing the still photo at 3:31 is just pure dumb coincidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Ahp50alBI



Edited by 56D500boy 2022-07-16 1:26 PM




(1955Chrysler331MarineEngineInA1955ChrisCraft21footCobra.jpg)



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Attachments 1955Chrysler331MarineEngineInA1955ChrisCraft21footCobra.jpg (175KB - 67 downloads)
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