The Forward Look Network | ||
| ||
Trunnion Pin Press Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Transmission and Rear Axle | Message format |
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | I am rebuilding the front ball and trunnion part of my '59 DeSoto driveshaft and I need to replace the housing. Mine has wear that is probably the source of my vibration during accelerating. I'm just curious if anyone else has pressed the pins out and in and, if so, how that was done? I believe the specs are to be within .003" of center on the pin to avoid vibrations, so I would assume I'm probably looking at going to a machine shop? Any input on this process would be appreciated. | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | Photo for reference. (IMG_20200830_152752626_HDR.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_20200830_152752626_HDR.jpg (96KB - 248 downloads) | ||
57chizler |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3768 Location: NorCal | Pressing the pin can be a frustrating experience; without a good pressing lubricant, the pin doesn't want to press in evenly i.e. it will "pop" a few thousandths with each application of pressure. A 20-ton H-frame hydraulic press is what I use, an arbor press isn't sufficient. I use the end of a digital caliper to measure the pin extension and try for zero tolerance. | ||
Shep |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3393 Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Agreed, this is a tough job. Be sure you really need to replace it. | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | And the biggest problem is to center the new one 100% correct. I'd cut the worn hsg and leave the old pin untouched (if still good). | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | 57chizler - 2020-09-01 4:11 PM Pressing the pin can be a frustrating experience; without a good pressing lubricant, the pin doesn't want to press in evenly i.e. it will "pop" a few thousandths with each application of pressure. A 20-ton H-frame hydraulic press is what I use, an arbor press isn't sufficient. I use the end of a digital caliper to measure the pin extension and try for zero tolerance.
I have access to a 12-ton hydraulic press, so I think that should be sufficient. What kind of pressing lubricant did you use? I also have a digital caliper I was planning to use and also target zero tolerance. | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | Shep - 2020-09-01 4:13 PM Agreed, this is a tough job. Be sure you really need to replace it.
You can see in the attached photo the black area, which is a dished wear area. It's much more prevelant on the one side than the other. I also compared it with a new '56 version and the inside is consistently smooth as I would expect it to be. As best as I can tell, I need to replace the housing unfortunately. (IMG_20200830_152808013.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_20200830_152808013.jpg (76KB - 253 downloads) | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | 1960fury - 2020-09-01 4:31 PM And the biggest problem is to center the new one 100% correct. I'd cut the worn hsg and leave the old pin untouched (if still good).
I'm not sure I follow your suggestion. My pin is fine and I wouldn't remove/replace that particular part if I didn't have to, but in order to slide the metal housing off and the new one on, the pin has to be removed. | ||
Shep |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3393 Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Ok, in that case. No choice, some heat will help. | ||
wizard |
| ||
Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13042 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | 12 ton press is sufficient. I turned tools in my lathe with the correct measurement for to press out and in the pin. Made a wooden support for to hold the shaft in level during the Works. | ||
57plymouth |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3577 Location: Blythewood, SC | I didn't have much trouble when I pushed the pin to rebuild my trunion years ago. I measured it with a digital caliper. But I didn't have it jumping through like Chizler. I found the key was to heat the end of the driveshaft with a torch so the fit wasn't so tight. I seem to recall the reassembly took longer than pressing the pin. | ||
ronbo97 |
| ||
Expert Posts: 4034 Location: Connecticut | I would absolutely have a driveshaft place do the job. They are experts at this. Try to find a place called Fleet Pride locally. They are a national chain of truck and trailer repair places. The local Fleet Pride in Western MA pressed out three Ball and Trunnion driveshaft pins for me, then reinstalled after I changed the housing, for a few dollars. Great people. Ron | ||
57chizler |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3768 Location: NorCal | Fireflite56 - 2020-09-01 3:43 PM What kind of pressing lubricant did you use? I also have a digital caliper I was planning to use and also target zero tolerance. I use the Goodson lube but Sunnen also makes a press-fit lube. https://goodson.com/products/pfl-200-press-fit-lube?variant=42583661... | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | Fireflite56 - 2020-09-01 6:51 PM 1960fury - 2020-09-01 4:31 PM And the biggest problem is to center the new one 100% correct. I'd cut the worn hsg and leave the old pin untouched (if still good).
I'm not sure I follow your suggestion. My pin is fine and I wouldn't remove/replace that particular part if I didn't have to, but in order to slide the metal housing off and the new one on, the pin has to be removed. ??? Didn't you say the hsg is shot? So just cut it in pieces. Takes a few seconds with a 1mm disc. | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | 1960fury - 2020-09-02 4:14 PM Fireflite56 - 2020-09-01 6:51 PM ??? Didn't you say the hsg is shot? So just cut it in pieces. Takes a few seconds with a 1mm disc.1960fury - 2020-09-01 4:31 PM And the biggest problem is to center the new one 100% correct. I'd cut the worn hsg and leave the old pin untouched (if still good).
I'm not sure I follow your suggestion. My pin is fine and I wouldn't remove/replace that particular part if I didn't have to, but in order to slide the metal housing off and the new one on, the pin has to be removed.
Yes, the housing is shot, but I will still need to put a new housing on and you can't do that unless the pin is removed, so at that point I may as well just remove the pin first and slide the old housing off and new housing/boot on before putting the pin back in. | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | 57plymouth - 2020-09-02 6:58 AM I didn't have much trouble when I pushed the pin to rebuild my trunion years ago. I measured it with a digital caliper. But I didn't have it jumping through like Chizler. I found the key was to heat the end of the driveshaft with a torch so the fit wasn't so tight. I seem to recall the reassembly took longer than pressing the pin.
Thanks. I think I am also going to use some heat to make the fit a little less tight. That sounds like it should help. | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | wizard - 2020-09-02 1:36 AM 12 ton press is sufficient. I turned tools in my lathe with the correct measurement for to press out and in the pin. Made a wooden support for to hold the shaft in level during the Works. When I was new in the FL world, 32 years ago, I attemepted to press ist out, assuming (stupid me) the B&T is bad because of the high mileage (only experience with ***** German cars....) and the jet black honey-like liquid (not grease) in the housing. Fortunately I didn't succeed. The pin is still in there since 1959 and at 340+ K miles between a very powerfull 383 and a prop shaft stressing 2:93 axle the OE B&T is still like new. The press I used was a giant 50 ton press. It didn't budge. | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | ronbo97 - 2020-09-02 10:59 AM I would absolutely have a driveshaft place do the job. They are experts at this. Try to find a place called Fleet Pride locally. They are a national chain of truck and trailer repair places. The local Fleet Pride in Western MA pressed out three Ball and Trunnion driveshaft pins for me, then reinstalled after I changed the housing, for a few dollars. Great people. Ron
I contacted all of my local driveshaft shops, including one that has been in business since 1912, and nobody wants to touch it. They can't do the pin press, they can't balance it, and in general they didn't even seem interested in trying. I looked up Fleet Pride, but unfortunately the closest one is 2+ hours away. My friend has a 12-ton press and based on reading what others have done, I think we can certainly attempt it at his place with the press, some lube, and some heat. Both of us have calipers to measure with as well to check the centering. | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | I think I am going to attempt this with my friend using his 12-ton press, some heat/cold, some lube, and a couple calipers. I'll report back here on the success of that. I can always go to a plan B if the old one won't budge or the new one center properly. I appreciate the tips regarding the press size, heat, lubricants, etc. | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | Fireflite56 - 2020-09-02 5:20 PM 1960fury - 2020-09-02 4:14 PM Fireflite56 - 2020-09-01 6:51 PM ??? Didn't you say the hsg is shot? So just cut it in pieces. Takes a few seconds with a 1mm disc.1960fury - 2020-09-01 4:31 PM And the biggest problem is to center the new one 100% correct. I'd cut the worn hsg and leave the old pin untouched (if still good).
I'm not sure I follow your suggestion. My pin is fine and I wouldn't remove/replace that particular part if I didn't have to, but in order to slide the metal housing off and the new one on, the pin has to be removed.
Yes, the housing is shot, but I will still need to put a new housing on and you can't do that unless the pin is removed, so at that point I may as well just remove the pin first and slide the old housing off and new housing/boot on before putting the pin back in. Yes, of course, but I tought it is easier that way, when you have to heat the shaft. I seem to remember the hsg was in the way when using a really big press. Its been some time that I had one appart, as they rarely cause trouble. Yes, of course you are right. | ||
ronbo97 |
| ||
Expert Posts: 4034 Location: Connecticut | Fireflite56 - 2020-09-02 5:31 PM I contacted all of my local driveshaft shops, including one that has been in business since 1912, and nobody wants to touch it. They can't do the pin press, they can't balance it, and in general they didn't even seem interested in trying. I looked up Fleet Pride, but unfortunately the closest one is 2+ hours away. My friend has a 12-ton press and based on reading what others have done, I think we can certainly attempt it at his place with the press, some lube, and some heat. Both of us have calipers to measure with as well to check the centering. Yes, I went thru that as well. There are three Fleet Prides in the area. Only one would touch it, as they had a guy that knew about these things. You have to keep calling around. Once you find a place, have them reuse the pin. I ran into a pin that just wouldn't go into the hole. I would recommend against heat, or hitting it with a hammer. It will mushroom and then will be useless, as you'll never get it balanced. Ron | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | ronbo97 - 2020-09-02 8:25 PM I would recommend against heat, or hitting it with a hammer. It will mushroom and then will be useless, as you'll never get it balanced. Ron Me too, I hate using heat but somemtimes there is no other choice. I tried it once with a 50 ton press without success. | ||
57plymouth |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3577 Location: Blythewood, SC | I didn't use a big press. I have the standard Harbor Freight one that most people have. It really wasn't that bad. I had a buddy help hold it for stability, but it wasn't the nightmare people are making it out to be. | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | 57plymouth - 2020-09-03 7:31 AM I didn't use a big press. I have the standard Harbor Freight one that most people have. It really wasn't that bad. I had a buddy help hold it for stability, but it wasn't the nightmare people are making it out to be. Good for you but not all cars/parts are the same. | ||
mikes2nd |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | hah just call up Big M and get a new driveshaft I have a spare couple just in case... Im sure mine is going to vibrate since I welded a ford 8.8 end on it... I will probably catch hell getting it balanced. | ||
57chizler |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3768 Location: NorCal | 1960fury - 2020-09-03 4:05 AM Me too, I hate using heat but somemtimes there is no other choice. Problem with heat is how much is enough and how much is too much? That's why I avoid using it. | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | 57chizler - 2020-09-03 1:22 PM 1960fury - 2020-09-03 4:05 AM Me too, I hate using heat but somemtimes there is no other choice. Problem with heat is how much is enough and how much is too much? That's why I avoid using it. Yup, certainly stay away from Oxigen for parts you will reuse. | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | As long as you stay well under even a slight red-hot, you will be OK. Many heat treated parts are required to be press fit with temperature without issue. If you get too close to red hot, you will need to quench with oil to preserve the heat treatment. | ||
1960fury |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | Powerflite - 2020-09-03 6:56 PM As long as you stay well under even a slight red-hot, you will be OK. Well this is a matter of fractions of a second and if you waited too long, the part is lost, you can't reverse it. If you ever heated metal in complete darkness, you will be surprised how fast the red-hot occurs and especially the surface of a metal is vital. | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9604 Location: So. Cal | One thing is true, that you can destroy the temper at the surface, locally if you put the flame too close or stay in one spot for too long. But it's silly to avoid heating it just out of fear. As long as you move around and use the flame to heat the part evenly to a temperature that is reasonable, you need not be afraid of it. | ||
GaryS |
| ||
Expert Posts: 1207 Location: Ponder, TX | Funny how a kid's ignorance and innocence didn't see a problem of any kind and I managed to replace at least one with a bench vice! I seem to recall doing that with more than one, but it's been more than sixty years and memory fails me. I'm sure I must have hammered it too, but it worked on my '53 Plymouth | ||
Fireflite56 |
| ||
Extreme Veteran Posts: 339 Location: Wisconsin | I forgot to follow up this post with the results, but I did do this work back in September. The 12-ton hydraulic press wasn't enough to budge the pin until we added some heat. With some heat (and cooling) we were able to get the old pin out and the new pin in. My digital caliper measured it to being within .002" of center (+.002" one direction, -.002" the other). I finished the reassembly of the new roller bearings and cover and everything involved with that. I put it in my car and no more vibration! I also picked up a spare kit with the housing for cheap since it fits several of our cars in the family. Hopefully when I do this on my '56, it's just a quick bearing package job since I should be able to pick out a driveshaft with a good housing to start with from what we have around here. | ||
Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] |
Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
(Delete all cookies set by this site) | |