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Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage
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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-07-21 4:26 AM (#601143)
Subject: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Posts: 267
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Location: Sydney

Hey guys

1960 New Yorker here and the original 60 amp alternator was fried shortly after I got the car.

The car is electrically fairly stock but I could not find a replacement and all I could get was a Tuff Stuff 100 amp OEM replacement and the matching SS regulator..

I have an amp guage on the dash and did not potentially want that much current running through it so added a heavy guage cable directly to the battery from the alternator,

From day 1 installing this new combo, it has not charged at idle at all and wont start charging until at approx 1000 rpm (I never checked the original).

Was running fine for 18 months and maybe 1000 km and then the battery died.

Replaced the battery and checked the voltage and it was 16 volts so the battery was fried by bad reulator.

I tried a mechanical reg and voltage was too low so I cleaned it up and filed amd squared the points and adjusted to 14.2 volts.

It still does not charge below 1000 rpm and the voltage fluctuates somewhat and is now on the low side at about 13.7 volts and the lights pulsate a little.

Im waiting for a new replacement regulator but will this fix it?

Is there any way to get this setup to charge at idle or is something wrong with the alternator?

Voltages are measured at the battery.

Thanks in advance



Edited by 1coolbanana 2020-07-21 4:29 AM
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wizard
Posted 2020-07-21 8:14 AM (#601148 - in reply to #601143)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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you have a pulley on the crank shaft for generator, hence the alternator is running too slow and doesn't create the field until on higher rpms.
The lowest diameter should be 2-2-1/2 inch on the alternator...
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57chizler
Posted 2020-07-21 12:44 PM (#601153 - in reply to #601143)
Subject: RE: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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I'm not familiar with the Tuff Stuff unit but did it come with a tag that states the rpm at which it puts out its rated power?

The factory style alternators are well known for not charging well at idle and low rpm regardless of the rated output.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-07-21 5:14 PM (#601159 - in reply to #601143)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Posts: 267
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Location: Sydney

I did check the ratio and although I cant remember the diameters, I do remember it was very close to 3:1 which I thought would have been fine but perhaps not.

My car appears to have an original fitment alternator. Its the early square back style. But perhaps not.

 

This is what I replaced it with

 

I cant find an output graph for it though :-



Edited by 1coolbanana 2020-07-21 5:34 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-07-25 1:12 AM (#601275 - in reply to #601148)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Posts: 267
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Location: Sydney

wizard - 2020-07-21 10:14 PM you have a pulley on the crank shaft for generator, hence the alternator is running too slow and doesn't create the field until on higher rpms. The lowest diameter should be 2-2-1/2 inch on the alternator...

 

Absolutely right....

I rechecked and measured the pulleys, the ratio is only 2.5:1, my memory isnt so good anymore!

170 crank and 68 alternator.

No room for bigger crank pulley as it only clears the water pump pulley by 1/8".

Charging starts at 900 rpm (2250 alternator rpm) so will try to find a pulley of between 50 and 56 but no luck so far, may have to make one.

56 will be good for 3:1 

50 will be good for 3.4:1 charging at just over idle but would this be too much and theoretically over revving the alternator not that the motor is often up in the revs anyway?

BTW, charging issues sorted, old wiring and poor connection on the alternator field.

Steady 14.5 now at 900 rpm and up. 



Edited by 1coolbanana 2020-07-25 1:14 AM
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imopar380
Posted 2020-07-26 8:42 PM (#601377 - in reply to #601275)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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What is the diameter of your crank pulley?
A friend of mine's 61 Chrysler has a 6.5 inch crank pulley and an original factory 35 Amp alternator. Charges at 14.5 V at idle.
My 1960 Chrysler has exactly the same diameter crank pulley and has a factory generator.
OOPS I just noticed that your pulley is 170mm which is just over 6.5 inches, so it will be the same pulley as I've described on these 2 cars.


Edited by imopar380 2020-07-26 8:52 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-07-26 8:53 PM (#601381 - in reply to #601377)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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imopar380 - 2020-07-27 10:42 AM What is the diameter of your crank pulley? A friend of mine's 61 Chrysler has a 6.5 inch crank pulley and an original factory 35 Amp alternator. Charges at 14.5 V at idle. My 1960 Chrysler has exactly the same diameter crank pulley and has a factory generator. OOPS I just noticed that your pulley is 170mm which is just over 6.5 inches, so it will be the same pulley as I've described on these 2 cars.

 

Thanks for that.

What is the diameter of the alternator pulley?

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imopar380
Posted 2020-07-28 12:15 AM (#601413 - in reply to #601381)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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1coolbanana - 2020-07-26 5:53 PM

imopar380 - 2020-07-27 10:42 AM What is the diameter of your crank pulley? A friend of mine's 61 Chrysler has a 6.5 inch crank pulley and an original factory 35 Amp alternator. Charges at 14.5 V at idle. My 1960 Chrysler has exactly the same diameter crank pulley and has a factory generator. OOPS I just noticed that your pulley is 170mm which is just over 6.5 inches, so it will be the same pulley as I've described on these 2 cars.

 

Thanks for that.

What is the diameter of the alternator pulley?



Just checked and measure the alternator pulley today - it's the stock 3 inch pulley.




(121c.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 121c.jpg (113KB - 10 downloads)
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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-07-28 12:38 AM (#601415 - in reply to #601413)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Location: Sydney

imopar380 - 2020-07-28 2:15 PM
1coolbanana - 2020-07-26 5:53 PM

imopar380 - 2020-07-27 10:42 AM What is the diameter of your crank pulley? A friend of mine's 61 Chrysler has a 6.5 inch crank pulley and an original factory 35 Amp alternator. Charges at 14.5 V at idle. My 1960 Chrysler has exactly the same diameter crank pulley and has a factory generator. OOPS I just noticed that your pulley is 170mm which is just over 6.5 inches, so it will be the same pulley as I've described on these 2 cars.

 

Thanks for that.

What is the diameter of the alternator pulley?

Just checked and measure the alternator pulley today - it's the stock 3 inch pulley.

 

Bummer, mines currently only about 2 5/8 and needs to be way smaller to charge at idle, like about 2" . Not sure if thats a good idea at 3.4:1, could over rev the alternator.

Might just have to live with it like so many of us do anyway!

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imopar380
Posted 2020-07-28 1:10 PM (#601425 - in reply to #601415)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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1coolbanana - 2020-07-27 9:38 PM

imopar380 - 2020-07-28 2:15 PM
1coolbanana - 2020-07-26 5:53 PM

imopar380 - 2020-07-27 10:42 AM What is the diameter of your crank pulley? A friend of mine's 61 Chrysler has a 6.5 inch crank pulley and an original factory 35 Amp alternator. Charges at 14.5 V at idle. My 1960 Chrysler has exactly the same diameter crank pulley and has a factory generator. OOPS I just noticed that your pulley is 170mm which is just over 6.5 inches, so it will be the same pulley as I've described on these 2 cars.

 

Thanks for that.

What is the diameter of the alternator pulley?

Just checked and measure the alternator pulley today - it's the stock 3 inch pulley.

 

Bummer, mines currently only about 2 5/8 and needs to be way smaller to charge at idle, like about 2" . Not sure if thats a good idea at 3.4:1, could over rev the alternator.

Might just have to live with it like so many of us do anyway!



Kind of strange, as my friend's 61 Chrysler charges fine with the 6.5> inch crank pulley with the 3 inch alternator pulley.

I'm about to do an alternator conversion on mine, the shop doing the alternator (A Mopar alternator) for me is going to install a voltage regulator right on the alternator, making it a 1 wire unit. He said the 3 inch pulley should be just fine to provide voltage at idle but he is going to put a 2.75" pulley on anyhow.

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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-07-28 5:07 PM (#601433 - in reply to #601425)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Posts: 267
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Location: Sydney

imopar380 - 2020-07-29 3:10 AM
1coolbanana - 2020-07-27 9:38 PM

imopar380 - 2020-07-28 2:15 PM
1coolbanana - 2020-07-26 5:53 PM

imopar380 - 2020-07-27 10:42 AM What is the diameter of your crank pulley? A friend of mine's 61 Chrysler has a 6.5 inch crank pulley and an original factory 35 Amp alternator. Charges at 14.5 V at idle. My 1960 Chrysler has exactly the same diameter crank pulley and has a factory generator. OOPS I just noticed that your pulley is 170mm which is just over 6.5 inches, so it will be the same pulley as I've described on these 2 cars.

 

Thanks for that.

What is the diameter of the alternator pulley?

Just checked and measure the alternator pulley today - it's the stock 3 inch pulley.

 

Interested to know how that goes and what type of alternator you are going to use.

 

Bummer, mines currently only about 2 5/8 and needs to be way smaller to charge at idle, like about 2" . Not sure if thats a good idea at 3.4:1, could over rev the alternator.

Might just have to live with it like so many of us do anyway!

Kind of strange, as my friend's 61 Chrysler charges fine with the 6.5> inch crank pulley with the 3 inch alternator pulley. I'm about to do an alternator conversion on mine, the shop doing the alternator (A Mopar alternator) for me is going to install a voltage regulator right on the alternator, making it a 1 wire unit. He said the 3 inch pulley should be just fine to provide voltage at idle but he is going to put a 2.75" pulley on anyhow.

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imopar380
Posted 2020-07-28 9:28 PM (#601444 - in reply to #601433)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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1coolbanana - 2020-07-28 2:07 PM
Thanks for that.

What is the diameter of the alternator pulley?



I just picked up the alternator today, It is a rebuilt older Chrysler alternator (I provided it -a friend gave it to me) and they installed a built in regulator right on it. The pulley is 2.75 inches.
This is it. I may try getting it on this weekend. I also bought a mounting bracket from the same shop.

Edited by imopar380 2020-07-28 9:32 PM




(alternator1.jpg)



(alternator2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments alternator1.jpg (82KB - 11 downloads)
Attachments alternator2.jpg (115KB - 11 downloads)
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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-07-28 11:52 PM (#601448 - in reply to #601143)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Nice.
Mine is the early square back type as is the original I have (burnt out diode pack)

Nice improvement with the one wire, I probably should have gone that way but I got whatever I could get at the time, didnt have much choice :-(
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imopar380
Posted 2020-08-01 3:45 PM (#601570 - in reply to #601448)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Mounted the alternator and wired it in this morning. I am getting 14.3- 14.4 V at idle with no load. With headlights on at idle, about 13.8. With A/C on at idle, 13.5

Edited by imopar380 2020-08-01 3:47 PM




(alternator3.jpg)



(alternnator4.jpg)



(alternator5.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments alternator3.jpg (200KB - 6 downloads)
Attachments alternnator4.jpg (237KB - 7 downloads)
Attachments alternator5.jpg (245KB - 6 downloads)
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1coolbanana
Posted 2020-08-02 3:12 AM (#601587 - in reply to #601570)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



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Location: Sydney

Thats awesome 

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imopar380
Posted 2020-08-02 2:33 PM (#601605 - in reply to #601143)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



Expert 5K+

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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada
The alternator is a Mopar model 7007, 60 Amp used in various models from '61 through '69.
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imopar380
Posted 2020-08-02 2:33 PM (#601606 - in reply to #601143)
Subject: Re: Charging at idle and the correct max output voltage



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7003
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada
The alternator is a Mopar model 7007, 60 Amp used in various models from '61 through '69.
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