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Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 12:31 AM (#577805)
Subject: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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Hi all
While the car is still off the road Ive been messing around with other stuff.
Now it appears the car has a Sure Grip diff with a stamping of 2.93 S on the housing.
Also, there is the remains of the Sure Grip tag on one of the nuts.

The diff certainly does not feel or behave like a Sure Grip.
It behaves totally like an open diff.
By this I mean, with both wheels off the ground, if I turn one, the other turns in the oposite direction, and if you try to spin it, only one spins.

Does this mean the Sure Grip clutches are just worn out, and thats why it behaves as an open diff??
TIA

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-04 2:50 AM (#577807 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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No, it means that someone swapped in an open differential and left the sure-grip tag on there. A bad sure grip will loosen too much while under load and make noise, but I have never seen one that would allow you to spin the tires freely, and certainly not to cause the other tire to spin in the opposite direction of movement. You have an open differential in there.

Edited by Powerflite 2019-02-04 2:53 AM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 4:39 AM (#577810 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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Thanks very much.

I dont remember it ever making any noise and seems smooth enough so seems like its just a standard open diff then.

Shame its not a sure grip but on the up side, its one less thing to fix.

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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 4:43 AM (#577811 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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On another note about the rear axle, is there any way to check if its and original assembly?

The whole rear axle assembly measures 61" from face to face and the spring mounts are exactly 45.5" across centre to centre and 2.5" wide.

Would this be original for a 60 New Yorker?

TIA
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-04 11:14 AM (#577822 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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The 45.5" spacing for the spring mounts is indicative of a '57-'61 axle and the length is close too. So yes, that is the proper axle under there.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 2:43 PM (#577832 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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Great, thanks.

I did have to add a 3 degree wedge to get the diff housing angle more acceptable.
Is that to be expected also?
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-04 2:53 PM (#577835 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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Of course, if it is stock, sitting at a stock height, you shouldn't need this. If you have lowered the car alot, it is certainly possible. Do the rear brakes look like stock '60 Chrysler? They changed a little over the years.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 2:57 PM (#577836 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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The rear drums appear standard to me and according to the manual.
I have too much end float on one side and the axle is damaged and slightly bent but thats a whole other story :-(
Wanted to remove the hub and axle to investigate the end float but the axle is damaged and key half sheared it its not coming apart anytime soon :-(
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-04 4:31 PM (#577838 - in reply to #577836)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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You can purchase another key through a good hardware supply like McMaster.com or similar in Australia. It sounds like you need to remove a shim from the backing plate to tighten up the gap. It isn't good to ride on improperly shimmed axles because it is really hard on the axle bearings, races & housing ends. You should be able to remove a shim from either end, and it will self-center as long as it isn't a big difference between them. Good luck with it.

Edited by Powerflite 2019-02-04 4:33 PM
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 5:32 PM (#577841 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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The key isnt so much the problem, a can get or make one, its the hub, it wont budge.
Ive been using a big 5 arm puller, heat etc.
Will not budge, to the point where something going to break, so Ive given up for the short term until I can figure out what to do and how to do it.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 6:02 PM (#577842 - in reply to #577838)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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Powerflite - 2019-02-05 7:31 AM

You should be able to remove a shim from either end, and it will self-center as long as it isn't a big difference between them. Good luck with it.


I have about 015" on the passenger side and about 060" on the drivers.

Ive been trying to find an exploded view of the assembly, shimming, bearings, seals etc but I cant find one and its not in my service manual :-(
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-04 7:01 PM (#577843 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: RE: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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I thought the spec was .008 to .012 or thereabouts. I would have to look it up to be sure, but .06" is a lot. You might find some damage with that kind of play on it, depending on how hard & long it has been driven that way. I have no advice on getting it apart other than to use a really good Blue Point or Snap-On style puller. They are far better than the cheap ones you can purchase.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-POINT-WHEEL-HUB-PULLER-STUDEBAKER-WILL...

I think I have 2 spare axles if you destroy yours, but shipping them won't be cheap.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 8:10 PM (#577846 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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Im using one like this and could not budge it using a 3 ft bar :-(
Was worried about breaking something so stopped.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nexus-Wheel-Hub-Puller-150-Pack-of-1-3/2...

I think from memory the book spec on end play was 012 - 018"

Thanks for the axle offer.
I may have to take you up on that at some point if it goes pear shaped.

Really, I was hoping to pull the hub and backing plate and address the end float but its not turning out that way.
I was also concerned about applying too much heat as I was worried about cooking the seal and having to find another.

Edited by 1coolbanana 2019-02-04 8:10 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-04 8:59 PM (#577849 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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Yeah, that's the cheap puller I was referring to. I've used both and the Blue Point or Snap-On version is much better and is much less scary to use.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-04 9:52 PM (#577852 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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Bummer, I thought it was a good one

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57chizler
Posted 2019-02-05 11:45 AM (#577869 - in reply to #577846)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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1coolbanana - 2019-02-04 5:10 PM

Im using one like this and could not budge it using a 3 ft bar :-(
Was worried about breaking something so stopped.


Just tightening the puller often won't pull the drum; after you get the puller as tight as you can get it smack the hex end of the puller with a heavy hammer (sledge), that will usually shock it loose.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-02-05 1:51 PM (#577874 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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Another trick is to loosen the nut, but put the cotter pin back in. Then go drive around the corners a couple of times.
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-05 2:44 PM (#577875 - in reply to #577869)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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57chizler - 2019-02-06 2:45 AM

1coolbanana - 2019-02-04 5:10 PM

Im using one like this and could not budge it using a 3 ft bar :-(
Was worried about breaking something so stopped.


Just tightening the puller often won't pull the drum; after you get the puller as tight as you can get it smack the hex end of the puller with a heavy hammer (sledge), that will usually shock it loose.



I was told "absolutely never to hit it" because you can break something internal??????
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1coolbanana
Posted 2019-02-05 2:46 PM (#577876 - in reply to #577874)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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Powerflite - 2019-02-06 4:51 AM

Another trick is to loosen the nut, but put the cotter pin back in. Then go drive around the corners a couple of times.


I will try that when the car is back on the road.
Was hoping do do it while it was off the road and on the stands :-/
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Stroller
Posted 2019-02-08 9:49 AM (#577975 - in reply to #577805)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?


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A bigger hamer or a good impact gun will pop that hub loose. In caution a neighbor might call the cops thinking someone just blew off a round with the ensuing to come "POP"!!! A trick that can be used, not sure if damage will result, a torch, not propance with a rose bud. Heat up the nose like your sweating a joing then touch some bees wax, the real stuff not the wax, to the mating edge. It will come off much more easily than wd-40 or blaster spray.
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57chizler
Posted 2019-02-08 3:08 PM (#577984 - in reply to #577875)
Subject: Re: Worn Out Sure Grip or Not Sure Grip At All?



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1coolbanana - 2019-02-05 11:44 AM


Just tightening the puller often won't pull the drum; after you get the puller as tight as you can get it smack the hex end of the puller with a heavy hammer (sledge), that will usually shock it loose.



I was told "absolutely never to hit it" because you can break something internal?????? :o
The ends of both axle shafts bear on a thrust block and cross-shaft so there's nothing to break.
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