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 Kickdown for a 2x4 Carb setup to a 3 speed torqueflite transmissionJump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201  Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Does anyone have any photos of the Kick-down for a 2x4 Carb setup to a 3 speed torqueflite transmission, I have no kick down connected and I'm trying to get an overall picture to see where the kickdown linkage is connected to the primary 4 bbl carb and also at the torqueflite transmission Can the Linkage to the accelerator pedal be moved to the red circle and the kick down cable be placed at the at the yellow circle, just trying to work out what other people are using or any suggestion...cheers (1.JPG) (A.JPG) (carb.JPG) (Twin Carb Link 3.JPG) (Twin Carb Linkages.JPG) Attachments ----------------  1.JPG (202KB - 267 downloads) A.JPG (139KB - 254 downloads) carb.JPG (211KB - 256 downloads) Twin Carb Link 3.JPG (132KB - 253 downloads) Twin Carb Linkages.JPG (173KB - 249 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166   Location: Lower Mainland BC | This isn't the info that you want but it might be info that helps you figure it out: (ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_1.jpg) (ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_2.jpg) (CastIronTFShowingKickdownLever.jpg) (ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_3.jpg) (ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_4.jpg) Attachments ---------------- ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_1.jpg (112KB - 456 downloads) ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_2.jpg (121KB - 265 downloads) CastIronTFShowingKickdownLever.jpg (188KB - 315 downloads) ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_3.jpg (183KB - 281 downloads) ExampleSingleFourBarrelThrottleLinkage_4.jpg (164KB - 264 downloads) | ||
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| finsruskw |
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Expert Posts: 2314  Location: Eastern Iowa | |||
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| BigBlockMopar |
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Expert Posts: 3575   Location: Netherlands | |||
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| ttotired |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8445 Location: Perth Australia | |||
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| BigBlockMopar |
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Expert Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | ttotired - 2019-01-19 4:48 PM Kick down connects to the bellcrank mounted on the firewall, not the carby Which is why I posted those two linkage diagrams, like this one (it's rod 14-11-9 that connects to the kickdown lever on the transmission): Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-19 5:18 PM | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | My 58 Plymouth has a 318, I have NO Linkages at all, what I have is the Lokar KD 2727 HT kickdown kit and the Lokar SRK-4000 Carb Bracket and Spring. Probably impossibly to find the original kick down linkages for this setup Found this link which talks about the Lokar 2727 setup https://www.hotrod.com/articles/the-lowdown-on-stock-torqueflite-kic... Edited by roblun 2019-01-19 6:17 PM (50705136_10158078504252619_8079420094704254976_n.jpg) (61yfB9dVsmL._SL1500_.jpg) (1968-plymouth-valiant-tci-a727-transmission-lokar-cable-running-toward-driveshaft.jpg) (1968-plymouth-valiant-tci-a727-transmission-lokar-kick-down-cable-matched-with-throttle-braket-and-throttle-cable-kit.jpg) (1968-plymouth-valiant-lokar-kick-down-bracket-braket-attached-to-the-tailshaft-housing.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 50705136_10158078504252619_8079420094704254976_n.jpg (65KB - 234 downloads) 61yfB9dVsmL._SL1500_.jpg (131KB - 246 downloads) 1968-plymouth-valiant-tci-a727-transmission-lokar-cable-running-toward-driveshaft.jpg (227KB - 253 downloads) 1968-plymouth-valiant-tci-a727-transmission-lokar-kick-down-cable-matched-with-throttle-braket-and-throttle-cable-kit.jpg (218KB - 256 downloads) 1968-plymouth-valiant-lokar-kick-down-bracket-braket-attached-to-the-tailshaft-housing.jpg (213KB - 327 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Imagine us, we get this message, suggesting that you want to go OE kick-down linkage: roblun - 2019-01-19 8:07 AM Does anyone have any photos of the Kick-down for a 2x4 Carb setup to a 3 speed torqueflite transmission, I have no kick down connected and I'm trying to get an overall picture to see where the kickdown linkage is connected to the primary 4 bbl carb and also at the torqueflite transmission So we spend some time finding info that you would find helpful with OE linkage, and *THEN* you tell us you have a Lokar cable system. Some of us might be confused. Others might be p*ssed off, having wasted our time and efforts. roblun - 2019-01-19 6:07 PM My 58 Plymouth has a 318, I have NO Linkages at all, what I have is the Lokar KD 2727 HT kickdown kit and the Lokar SRK-4000 Carb Bracket and Spring. Probably impossibly to find the original kick down linkages for this setup Just sayin'  Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-19 6:33 PM | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | How is your throttle peddle connected to the carburetor? As in via rods and bell crank? If so, then all you might need is the rod from the bell crank to the transmission. SO...searching for section 14-11-9 in the 55-58 Mopar Parts catalogue pdf and then zeroing in on 1958 Plymouth with TorqueFlite, we get 1734 979 as the rod you need (See listing below the photo). Taking "1734979 rod" to eBay and hitting search yields a perfect hit. Go for it.  https://www.ebay.ca/itm/NOS-Mopar-1957-58-automatic-shaft-to-transmi...  Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-19 8:31 PM (1734979BellCrankToTrans57-58Plymouth.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1734979BellCrankToTrans57-58Plymouth.jpg (171KB - 241 downloads) | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Thats the part I dont have 1958 Plymouth with TorqueFlite, 1734 979 the rod, throttle peddle connected to the carburetor rods but nothing going to the Transmission, see photos of my setup.....Thanks for helping I really appreciate it (D.JPG) (B.JPG) (c.JPG) Attachments ---------------- D.JPG (209KB - 250 downloads) B.JPG (224KB - 243 downloads) c.JPG (133KB - 238 downloads) | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | |||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Here are some more photos of my Carb linkage to the throttle and also a photo of my Gearshift Control Rod Bell Crank on my transmission Attachments ---------------- IMG_3651.jpeg (240KB - 290 downloads) IMG_3652.jpeg (233KB - 274 downloads) IMG_3665.jpeg (236KB - 282 downloads) IMG_3669.jpeg (226KB - 297 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | roblun - 2019-01-19 9:02 PM I purchased the part, one last favour do you have a schematic diagram of how its attached to the throttle linkages to the transmission...Big Thank you, I can finally get this sorted out This is as good as I can do without having the part in my hands: (TorqueFliteKickDownLinkageSchematic_Annotated.jpg) (TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_CompleteRod_Annotated.jpg) (TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_BellCrankEnd_Annotated.jpg) (TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_TransmissionEnd_Annotated.jpg) (ExampleKickDownRod_Annotated.jpg) Attachments ---------------- TorqueFliteKickDownLinkageSchematic_Annotated.jpg (195KB - 253 downloads) TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_CompleteRod_Annotated.jpg (245KB - 255 downloads) TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_BellCrankEnd_Annotated.jpg (215KB - 253 downloads) TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_TransmissionEnd_Annotated.jpg (218KB - 250 downloads) ExampleKickDownRod_Annotated.jpg (199KB - 286 downloads) | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Here are some more photos, I have to mention also that my car is RHD here in Australia and my Accelerator pedal is way over the other side, I dont have that type of Bracket from the Schematic diagram the Bracket 14-11-20 part No. 1734 030 and the Shaft 14-11-1 part No. 1735 016 are missing from my car (BracketA.JPG) (IMG_3672.jpg) (IMG_3674.jpg) (IMG_3675.jpg) (IMG_3677.jpg) Attachments ---------------- BracketA.JPG (171KB - 273 downloads) IMG_3672.jpg (218KB - 238 downloads) IMG_3674.jpg (248KB - 255 downloads) IMG_3675.jpg (241KB - 256 downloads) IMG_3677.jpg (241KB - 249 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | I'm pretty sure that you should have disclosed that your car was RHD in your very first post in this thread. Likewise the Lokar kit. I am guessing that because you don't have the proper RHD kickdown bell crank, your car originally came with a standard transmission (??). Seems odd that in OZ new cars with automatics didn't get kick down. The only explanation involves the car being built as a standard. With the new RHD/no bell crank information now on the table, I see two options: 1. Figure out how to install that Lokar kit. In this case it might be the best/easiest solution. 2. Figure out and fabricate an extension to the existing throttle shaft that transfers the throttle movement from the right hand side of your car to the left side of the carburetors. You could find/make a collar that fits over the end of the shaft and fit it with a temporary set screw (parts shown in yellow below). The you could add, either by welding or screwing an new kick down bell crank (flat bar stock) (shown in blue) to the yellow collar and have a hole in the bell crank plate through which the threaded/ball end of the kick down rod (shown in orange) would fit (with a nut). Some fiddling would be required. Once it was working and the position of the yellow colllar determined, the set screw could be replaced with a plug weld or a through bolt and nut. (Just an idea). (PotentialSolutionToLackOfRHDKickdownBellcrank.jpg) Attachments ---------------- PotentialSolutionToLackOfRHDKickdownBellcrank.jpg (249KB - 251 downloads) | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Great Info Dave, thanks for that last diagram, I have this sorted out now, with your diagram and Torqueflite kickdown rod, I have found someone who is willing to do this for me just as soon as the kickdown rod comes in, thanks for your help, sorry I didnt mention the car was RHD, but I thought from the photos of my engine bay you would of seen that, my fault. You didn't waste your time, you really helped me out here in a big way and finally I can get this sorted out before I do an upgrade of my camshaft and lifters, Gary Pavlovich has kindly made me a set of high performance cams and lifters to go with my Dual quad 4bbl setup to replace my stock camshaft and lifters with his....Cheers, really appreciate your time and effort! Edited by roblun 2019-01-20 11:43 PM (PotentialSolutionToLackOfRHDKickdownBellcrank.jpg) (Bracket.JPG) (TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_CompleteRod_Annotated.jpg) (D.JPG) Attachments ---------------- PotentialSolutionToLackOfRHDKickdownBellcrank.jpg (249KB - 235 downloads) Bracket.JPG (64KB - 257 downloads) TorqueFliteKickDownRod1734979_CompleteRod_Annotated.jpg (245KB - 245 downloads) D.JPG (209KB - 242 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | roblun - 2019-01-20 11:37 PM Great Info Dave, thanks for that last diagram, I have this sorted out now,...Cheers, really appreciate your time and effort! No problem. If I had been sharper, I would have seen the power brake stuff, i.e. your chromed vacuum tank and the accordion bellows on the passenger side, and figured it (RHD) out. But I didn't. SO my bad.  As for that "sketch", that was just to give you an idea. There will be a lot of fiddling to figure out exactly how long that yellow collar will need to be to get the blue bell crank and the kickdown rod in the correct lateral position. And then there will be the length of the bell crank, its rotational location and the position of the hole for the threaded ball end of the kickdown rod. It's almost like it would be easiest to protype it in wood so you could modify things easier until it gets figured. Good luck. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | I was under my car (56 Dodge) today removing the starter (a subject of a different thread) and when I had removed it, I looked up and saw that I could take a great photo of the throttle and kick down rods and their associated bell crank lever arms. I measured the kick down lever arm at about 6" center to center. About. Hope that the photo helps. See below: Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-21 10:25 PM (ExampleKickDownBellCrankAndRod_Annotated.jpg) Attachments ---------------- ExampleKickDownBellCrankAndRod_Annotated.jpg (174KB - 275 downloads) | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Thanks Dave, also Mick on this forum who lives in the same part of Australia as I do supplied me with photos of what it should look like for my application, thanks to Mick as well (IMG_3682a.JPG) (IMG_3687a.JPG) (IMG_3688a.JPG) (IMG_3677.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_3682a.JPG (221KB - 249 downloads) IMG_3687a.JPG (211KB - 232 downloads) IMG_3688a.JPG (228KB - 244 downloads) IMG_3651.jpeg (240KB - 246 downloads) IMG_3677.jpg (241KB - 234 downloads) IMG_3669.jpeg (226KB - 245 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Good stuff. Mick's photo shows how much better the factory's solution was better than my idea. With the clamp, you can make rotational adjustments on the kickdown bell crank angular position. With the multiple holes in the bell crank, you can play with the bell crank length and the kick down rod angle, etc. You have your path forward. Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-22 2:00 AM (MickFromOzsRHDKickDownMechanism_Annotated.jpg) Attachments ---------------- MickFromOzsRHDKickDownMechanism_Annotated.jpg (188KB - 241 downloads) | ||
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| sermey |
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Expert Posts: 1220 Location: SWITZERLAND | A lot of instructive photos, better than 1000 words. Here some more ideas. - SERGE - http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=28388&posts=29&start=12 | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | We have progressed big time, looks like Australian Assembled 58 Plymouth, Dodge and De Soto had there own setup, I have found the whole kickdown system for it...Check out the photos, I actually went back to the person I purchased the Plymouth 30 years ago and he looked in a box full of parts and found the bits and pieces needed...Crazy stuff!!!All i need now is to find the length of the shaft which is missing on my setup, Just waiting on that answer Edited by roblun 2019-01-24 1:26 AM (IMG_3766a.JPG) (CaptureAQ.JPG) (IMG_3675.jpg) (IMG_3677.jpg) (IMG_3678.jpg) (IMG_3767(Edited).jpg) (IMG_3771.jpg) (IMG_3772.jpg) (IMG_3773.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_3766a.JPG (178KB - 218 downloads) CaptureAQ.JPG (112KB - 236 downloads) IMG_3675.jpg (231KB - 232 downloads) IMG_3677.jpg (241KB - 223 downloads) IMG_3678.jpg (223KB - 231 downloads) IMG_3767(Edited).jpg (240KB - 223 downloads) IMG_3771.jpg (233KB - 225 downloads) IMG_3772.jpg (248KB - 229 downloads) IMG_3773.jpg (220KB - 225 downloads) IMG_3669.jpeg (226KB - 219 downloads) | ||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3802 Location: NorCal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 57chizler - 2019-01-24 12:32 PM So, the car has been running for some time without the KD linkage? Depending on how much/how hard the car was driven, there might be transmission damage from running without the linkage. How would there be damage from lots of throttle but no kick down? Bogging? | ||
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| wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13065 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | wizard - 2019-01-24 1:00 PM This is basic automatic transmission knowledge. Of which, I have none. Thanks. | ||
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| wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13065 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | |||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | Because I had no Kickdown, when the Transmission was rebuilt, “New Transmission Kit “ overhaul, 5.000 miles ago, they decide to wire my Throttle Valve Linkage on the transmission on a certain angle so the clutches and other parts wouldn't get damaged ...Check out the photos Edited by roblun 2019-01-24 6:05 PM (IMG_3664.jpg) (IMG_3666.jpg) (IMG_3669.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_3664.jpg (245KB - 242 downloads) IMG_3666.jpg (236KB - 227 downloads) IMG_3669.jpg (237KB - 224 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | wizard - 2019-01-24 1:23 PM That's OK Dave, we learn as long as we want and live. Read up on the subject in the manual (s) you bought - you'll need it prior to go ahead with your transmission project... I will be having a professional transmission person go through whatever cast iron torqueflite I end up using. I will rely on them to get their part correct. I will be installing the existing Powerflite kickdown rod in the "new" cast iron torqueflite's kick down lever. (Which I discovered 20 minutes ago it is held in by a clip). This clip type: Apparently widely available, including from Rock Auto: https://www.rockauto.com/en/tools/fuel/air,carburetor,throttle+linka... As shown on my car, showing the kickdown rod, the clip and the kickdown lever on the transmission: Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-24 7:33 PM (DetailOfKickDownRodAndKickDownLeverConnection.jpg) Attachments ---------------- DetailOfKickDownRodAndKickDownLeverConnection.jpg (171KB - 230 downloads) | ||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3802 Location: NorCal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 57chizler - 2019-01-25 3:53 PM I have attempted a one-man campaign to stop the usage of the term "kickdown linkage" but it's a losing battle. I am not saying that "Compensated Throttle Pressure" isn't important, but you can't deny the fact that a bunch of Chrysler training info references "Kickdown", many many times. Did I say "many" ?? Edited by 56D500boy 2019-01-25 7:36 PM (TF.png) (KIckdownInfo_ControlDiagram.jpg) (KickDown_A466TrainingManual_1.jpg) (KickDown_A466TrainingManual_2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- TF.png (125KB - 216 downloads) KIckdownInfo_ControlDiagram.jpg (129KB - 244 downloads) KickDown_A466TrainingManual_1.jpg (154KB - 217 downloads) KickDown_A466TrainingManual_2.jpg (164KB - 221 downloads) | ||
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| roblun |
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Veteran Posts: 201 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia | |||
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| wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13065 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Kickdown is a funktion in automatic transmissions, so the term kickdown is correct. However, the most important function for the throttle valve linkage is to supply compensated throttle pressure. example, let's assume that the accelerator pedal movement is restricted by the carpet so that a kickdown cannot occur- if the throttle valve linkage is otherwise correctly adjusted, this condition won't damage the transmission. If the throttle valve is wrongly, adjusted kickdown might occur, but at wrong speed/pressure. In this condition, or if the linkage is missing, the risk of damages are very high. So, adjust the linkage properly. You might call a duck cat, but don't expect it to swim well | ||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3802 Location: NorCal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | As part of the "parts gathering" phase for my Powerflite to A-466 torqueflite project, I have acquired a "kickdown"/pressure adjusting/whatever rod that is adjustable. It was in a 57 Chrysler Windsor. That might be useful for setting up a RHD car throttle to transmission connection. This (Photos courtesy of DaveS): (DaveSsKickDownRod_3.jpg) (DaveSsKickDownRod_2.jpg) (DaveSsKickDownRod_1.jpg) Attachments ---------------- DaveSsKickDownRod_3.jpg (97KB - 210 downloads) DaveSsKickDownRod_2.jpg (85KB - 221 downloads) DaveSsKickDownRod_1.jpg (100KB - 213 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Based on the 55-58 Mopar Parts manual, I think that the PN for the adjustable linkage that I posted photos of above is 1734 979 (or 1734979 if you do an internet or ebay search for a NOS one) (DaveSsKickDownRod_ShowingAsItem14_11_9_inC75LinkageDiagram.jpg) (1734979_57-58ChryslerShiftLinkagePN.jpg) Attachments ---------------- DaveSsKickDownRod_ShowingAsItem14_11_9_inC75LinkageDiagram.jpg (154KB - 205 downloads) 1734979_57-58ChryslerShiftLinkagePN.jpg (162KB - 225 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Finally got that adjustable 57 Windsor kick-down rod from Dave S. (I was away I couldn't use PayPal on the road). I've got it all cleaned up and shiny not (3 days in an Evaporust bath, a wire brush on a drill and some 400 grit sand paper). See photos below. Just as I was going to post my photos of this "new" adjustable kickdown rod and then I saw the same rod in a photo from Magnus (see below). WHAAAT? Too funny (for me). At least, now I know for sure the correct orientation, etc. (Thanks Magnus). Looks like there is about 2" of adjustment in the sliding adjustment part.  Mine: Edited by 56D500boy 2019-03-12 9:01 PM (AdjustableKickDownRodShowing2inchAdjustmentRange.jpg) (AdjustableKickDownRodAdjustableEndDetail_Top.jpg) (AdjustableKickDownRodAdjustableEndDetail_Bottom.jpg) Attachments ---------------- AdjustableKickDownRodShowing2inchAdjustmentRange.jpg (55KB - 214 downloads) AdjustableKickDownRodAdjustableEndDetail_Top.jpg (53KB - 203 downloads) AdjustableKickDownRodAdjustableEndDetail_Bottom.jpg (65KB - 208 downloads) | ||
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| Administrator |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 967 Location: Pittsburgh, PA | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10166 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Very late to the party but I just found this diagram in the 57 300C service manual supplement at MyMopar https://mymopar.com/service-manuals/ (57Chrysler300CThrottleAndThrottlePressureLinkageDiagram.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57Chrysler300CThrottleAndThrottlePressureLinkageDiagram.jpg (129KB - 26 downloads) | ||
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