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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-07 5:09 PM (#564743)
Subject: howards cam



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lookin for some thoughts here ,,,, please --------------------------------------------------------later


https://www.ebay.com/itm/112124430669?ul_noapp=true
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1960fury
Posted 2018-06-07 5:48 PM (#564751 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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For me? Way too wild. Depends on what YOU're looking for.
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59 in Calif
Posted 2018-06-07 7:03 PM (#564758 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam


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Hey Chuck, Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hope all is well. I don't know anything about Howard Cams, good or bad. I used an Edlebrock cam from summit when I built up LA360 for wife's 59 dodge. It's just a cruiser, no high speed racing involved. So it works good in this application. They do have an assortment of different 'lift and overlap' cams available. Jerry
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wayfarer
Posted 2018-06-08 9:37 AM (#564797 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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What is the plan?
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-08 5:45 PM (#564836 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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nothing big , just a good sounding street ripper . when i opened my 383 magnum clone top end ( not all the way yet ) i found 1 collapsed lifter and stopped til i get all top end and cam parts and pieces . it has
@ 5000 miles on a rebuild by previous owner , so said to be . my thinking is that a cam with 500 or less lift will work well for my wants , along with the cam matching parts , which is why i'm looking at the cam
above . if i remember correctly a 69 383 magnum has a lift of @ 450 , 268-283 duration

jerry , i'm doing ok not perfect but ok . a while back i had to have some new heart plumbing since my open heart , 6 way bypass was almost exactly 10 yrs old .
now i have a pacemaker-defib and a new stent
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wayfarer
Posted 2018-06-09 9:40 AM (#564874 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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That cam in a 383 should be plenty. Hopefully this a 4-spd car.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-06-09 12:09 PM (#564880 - in reply to #564836)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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60 dart - 2018-06-08 2:45 PM
if i remember correctly a 69 383 magnum has a lift of @ 450 , 268-283 duration


The original Magnum cam has 115° lobe centers, the Howards has 112° lobe centers which will produce a choppier idle and less off-idle drivability than the Magnum.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-09 5:50 PM (#564903 - in reply to #564874)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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wayfarer - 2018-06-09 9:40 AM

That cam in a 383 should be plenty. Hopefully this a 4-spd car.




yes , 833
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LostDeere59
Posted 2018-06-14 3:07 PM (#565149 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: RE: howards cam



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Have you looked at/talked to Hughes Engines?

Mopar only guys with a pretty impressive website and reputation.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/index.php



Gregg
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-14 8:41 PM (#565162 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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thanks , but no hilltown i haven't . as of now i'm gone forward with the howards . the biggest reason is cost and matching parts . so its a win , lose or draw situation from here . from what i know and things
forgotten but i've read up on , it should be ok for my wants ,,, thanks everyone ---------------------------------------------------------------later
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wayfarer
Posted 2018-06-15 9:10 AM (#565171 - in reply to #565162)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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Keep us posted on the first drive.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-23 12:40 AM (#565483 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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opened up the left bank today . 6 of 8 lifters i could compress by hand and push rod 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch very easily . never seen that one before . kind of odd swirl on tops of pistons , like a Loch ness monster
look , maybe ying/yang . cylinders still have swirls from honing . real clean inside . valve seals need replaced with an upgrade--------------------------------------------------later
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Posted 2018-06-23 12:36 PM (#565503 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam


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That cam in a 440 would be verrrrry streetable. 112 LSA with 225/235 at 050 is fine. It will be a choppier cam in a 383 though. Howards Cams are good quality cams, we have used many
Make sure you have decent static compression IMO!! Measure how far down in the hole it is!!!

Edited by CrAzYMoPaRGuY 2018-06-23 12:37 PM
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-23 3:08 PM (#565509 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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thanks crazy . now , would anyone use used push rods/from same motor . i always have with no problems but not with a setup like this . i have a set of lightweight hardened speed pro --------------------------------- later
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-24 4:49 AM (#565527 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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i don't know how but i'm coming up with piston to deck clearance of @ .080 . thats crazy deep for a motor that is supposed to be 10:1 compression------------------------------------------------------------later
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-24 9:41 AM (#565531 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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What is the head cc? I can calculate the compression if you can tell me. I would assume you are using a head gasket .04" thick once compressed. As far as using used pushrods, as long as the ends are all still tight, with no mushrooming at the connection, you should be OK.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-06-24 1:56 PM (#565541 - in reply to #565531)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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If you don't have a way to measure the chamber volumes, the head casting number will give a clue to the volume. Of course, the original volume will be reduced if there has been any surfacing of the heads; to check for any surfacing, measure the outer deck, it was exactly one inch thick when new.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-24 6:56 PM (#565544 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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thanks , the heads are 516's with 1.74 upgraded exhaust valve . the head gasket will be a steel .020 before install . the heads have been cleaned up on the mating surface but don't look much
different "by eye" than stock oem heads right next to them , again thanks guys . i need all the help i can get!-----------------------------------------later
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-25 2:21 AM (#565565 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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Assuming a stock bore & stroke on a 383, 88cc combustion chamber volume, .02" gasket thickness, and .08" deep deck height; I calculate a compression of 8.0:1 compression ratio. That's a smog motor for sure.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-25 3:49 AM (#565566 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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so what should i expect with motor performance as a street motor , given aspects that have been gone over --------------------------------------------------later
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-25 9:20 AM (#565579 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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High compression makes a wild cam feel less wild. Low compression with a wild cam will have very low vacuum at idle, you will have to increase the idle speed to keep it running, and it won't make much power until you get the rpm's higher, i.e. little low end torque. This is speaking generally, not in reference to the specific cam you have chosen.
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wayfarer
Posted 2018-06-25 9:34 AM (#565581 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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Agree with Powerflite, big cams and low compression are real lazy at low rpm. In a moderalely heavy car it will not be a fun drive.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-06-25 4:03 PM (#565595 - in reply to #565544)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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60 dart - 2018-06-24 3:56 PM

thanks , the heads are 516's with 1.74 upgraded exhaust valve .


The 516's have an advertised chamber volume of 73.5 CC's but will usually measure around 78 CC's so that brings your estimated CR closer to 9.5-1.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-26 10:22 AM (#565640 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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73.5 cc gives 9.11:1
78.0 cc gives 8.75:1
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57chizler
Posted 2018-06-26 11:41 AM (#565641 - in reply to #565640)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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Yeah, my bad, I was using the RB stroke in my calculations. DOH!!

Edited by 57chizler 2018-06-26 11:44 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-26 1:45 PM (#565651 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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That's a convenient calculator. I figured out the formula: CompRatio= 1 + Swept volume/(combustion chamber volume + deck volume + gasket volume - piston dome volume)
I came up with a spreadsheet to calculate it when i had to figure out the compression on my weird 392 project.
Looks like summit and I get the same number so that's reassuring that someone at summit knows what they are doing.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-27 12:36 PM (#565707 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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single or dual plane oem intake? ------------------------------------------------------------later
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-27 6:51 PM (#565724 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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and whats the best economical way to get the compression ratio up . i got all these remedies runnin through my head , none of which i really like --------------------------later
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-27 7:15 PM (#565725 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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and again the actual piston depth is .095 . checked again the piston stop @ tdc . heads off , feeler gauge stacked -------------------------------------------later
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-27 7:16 PM (#565726 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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yes , it keeps gettin worse ------------------------------------------later
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-27 7:28 PM (#565727 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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If it were me, I would tear it apart and replace the pistons & bearings. You wouldn't have to do the main bearings, but I would while you are there. Not hard to do yourself. If you keep the rings in order, you can reuse them if you wish. That way you don't have to re-surface the bores.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-28 12:20 AM (#565741 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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thanks socal , thats what i just came up with myself . the numbers off the top of the pistons are 366NP motorhome pistons (silvolite), compression height of 1.848 i
m needin @ 1.935 . i'm shootin for new pistons , rings and bearings . takin out the motor will be a chore for me . you guys are the best , thanks ---------------------------------------------later

Edited by 60 dart 2018-06-28 12:22 AM
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-29 3:53 PM (#565801 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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the best i'm goin to do is probably 1.920 piston comp. height . that should be 23 below deck correct ? which should bring the compression ratio to @ 9.5 or higher
depending on which head gasket i use , .040 or .020 . not real easy trying to find a reasonable machine shop here . all the napa ones have closed but i found one
up river ( bout 20mi. ) , to press the pistons onto rods @ 10$ a hit , which i think is more than fair . he's one of the ex-napa machinists that now has his own
motor performance shop including a dyno , which is extremely rare in this part of the tri state area . -----------------------------------------------later
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-29 4:29 PM (#565802 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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If your .095" measurement is correct, then yes, this one should give you .023" in the hole. That equates to a 9.9:1 compression with a .02" gasket & 78cc combustion chamber. Goes down to 9.5:1 with a .04" gasket.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-06-29 11:33 PM (#565819 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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thanks socal ----------------------------------------------------later
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60 dart
Posted 2018-07-01 3:47 PM (#565859 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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is 10.0:1 CPR too much for pump gas and should i stick with 0.020 head gasket or the 0.040 @ 9.5:1 cpr ------------------------------------------------------later
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wayfarer
Posted 2018-07-02 9:32 AM (#565880 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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You might be in questionable territory at 10:1 unless the cam has alot of valve overlap.
The older I get the more conservative I become so the 9.5 looks good to me in a wedge headed engine unless you start adding a bunch of electronics.
Swapping heads or head gaskets are easier than changing pistons. JMHO
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57chizler
Posted 2018-07-02 2:18 PM (#565888 - in reply to #565859)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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60 dart - 2018-07-01 12:47 PM

is 10.0:1 CPR too much for pump gas and should i stick with 0.020 head gasket or the 0.040 @ 9.5:1 cpr


The possibility of detonation at higher compression ratios invokes the subject of quench. With the closed chamber heads it's easier to get good quench but the desired quench is in the .020" neighborhood so a deck of .023" and a gasket of .020" (total .043" quench) isn't optimal but might be better than the .063" quench that the thicker gasket provides. IOW, you might be better off, detonation wise, with the higher compression.

Scroll down a little over half way to the "Squish and Quench" chapter on this page:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/cylinder-heads/

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60 dart
Posted 2018-07-03 12:40 AM (#565918 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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i'm thinkin with the 516 heads , which i have , it'll be ok with .020 head gaskets .................... 64 came with these heads which i also have, weren't they also oem steel head gaskets around .020 ---------------------------------------------later
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60 dart
Posted 2018-07-03 12:43 AM (#565919 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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thinkin something like this ,,,,,,,,

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ideal-quench-height/
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60 dart
Posted 2018-07-22 7:08 PM (#567029 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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i'm wonderin before i get everything to a somewhat local engine builder , if i'm goin to have valve to piston issue with the lift i have picked and flat top pistons --------------------------------------------------------later


i'll be gettin it all better matched also(pistons are)" and interior rebalanced . my harmonic balancer and flywheel are
now 0 balance -------------------------------------------

Edited by 60 dart 2018-07-22 7:16 PM
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Cataldo
Posted 2018-07-29 3:53 AM (#567362 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam


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For what it is worth, I have been running howards cams stuff in a bunch of motors lately with excellent results. I am running their 225/233 .525/.531 110lsa hydraulic roller in a 350 Chevy and it runs amazingly well. Power brakes, idle all day long, great power everywhere, and will lug down to 1800 rpm in over drive on the freeway to get 20 mpg.


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60 dart
Posted 2018-07-29 6:12 PM (#567377 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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what cfm carb you got with that howards cam . my motor guy seems to think nothing less than 750 with vac. secondaries "not mech. sec's" ---------------------------------------------------------later

Edited by 60 dart 2018-07-29 6:14 PM
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Cataldo
Posted 2018-08-02 4:50 PM (#567645 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam


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On my Camaro? A 600 double pumper.

Its a vortec 350 with a little porting
Rpm air gap intake
600dp
1 3/4 headers
10.25:1 compression

.040 quench

With the 200 4r trans 3.23s and a 3200 stall and a weight of 3310 lbs with out my 160lbs has run 12.40 at 108 mph.
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Cataldo
Posted 2018-08-02 4:57 PM (#567646 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam


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Fwiw my wifes 1965 Mustang we built a 347 with aluminum heads 10.2:1 compression .039 quench. Rpm air gap. 650dp (a 600 would be better). A Howards hydraulic roller 219/225 .544/.533 lift 112lsa 108 icl.

C4 stock converter and 3.00 rear gears it ran a 13.1 at 102mph.

Unfortunately on that pass 3rd gear let go on the 2-3shift. So that was coasting at like 900ish feet. That was also with a 600 vs carb and a Weiand version of the regular performer intake.

Edited by Cataldo 2018-08-02 5:04 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2018-08-02 6:30 PM (#567653 - in reply to #567377)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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60 dart - 2018-07-29 6:12 PM

what cfm carb you got with that howards cam . my motor guy seems to think nothing less than 750 with vac. secondaries "not mech. sec's" ---------------------------------------------------------later


For a 383 NEVER go under 750cfm. Regardless what the theory says. Dyno tests have shown again and again the 383 needs at least 750 cfm. That is also my personal experience.
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Cataldo
Posted 2018-08-02 7:06 PM (#567656 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam


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Its an easy test with a vacuum gauge. Run it WOT and make sure your at 0 vacuum. 1 or 2" is not bad but you should read 0. If its reading any vacuum at WOT (assuming secondaries are open) then the carb is too small.


Edit: not saying a 750 isnt necessary, I would agree on a healthy 383 a 750 is very appropriate. With Holley vacuum secondary carbs with stiff springs they wont open all the way and will flow much less cfm, its amazing how many people dont ever take the time to change them and potentially give up a lot of power.

Edited by Cataldo 2018-08-02 7:09 PM
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60 dart
Posted 2018-08-03 12:04 AM (#567699 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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the old carb was a holley 750 DP. wasn't the factory 4 bbl afb's way less than 750 cfm-----------------------------------------------------------------later
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Cataldo
Posted 2018-08-03 12:24 AM (#567702 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam


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Yeah they are 500 to 625cfm mostly. There are bigger ones, but few.
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60 dart
Posted 2018-09-22 2:07 PM (#570576 - in reply to #564743)
Subject: Re: howards cam



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finally goin after my machined parts , late afternoon . just talked to the builder machinist builder a little while ago , says he aint movin on till my parts are done! it's been
since 8/3 he's had em ----------------------------------------------------later
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