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Constipated horn
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-24 9:03 PM (#563991)
Subject: Constipated horn



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As part of my cold air induction scoop project, I had to swap the horns from left to right to gain clearance to the air scoop. I had not hooked the right horn (used to be the left one) up until the other day. I tried the horn (key set to "RUN") and there was a toot from at least one of them, but not necessarily both of them. Today, I disconnected both horns and ran a jumper wire from the (+) battery terminal to the horn terminals (just touching the horn terminals lightly). The right one seemed to work fine. "TOOT!!" The left one made a slight noise ("THUK") like a metal diaphragm getting sucked to something like a magnet. But no vibrating "horn" noise. I don't think the left/right swap has anything to do with it (but it might). I can't honestly tell you that both horns were working before I swapped them.

Not sure what the next step is (??)



Before I hooked up the right horn:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-24 9:16 PM




(56DodgeWithHornsSwappedRightToLeftLeftToRightToClearNewColdAirScoop.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeWithHornsSwappedRightToLeftLeftToRightToClearNewColdAirScoop.jpg (142KB - 69 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-24 10:04 PM (#563994 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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It appears you have a Los Angeles built car with the Jubilee horns. First, check the ground to the driver. Attach a dedicated ground connection to test it out. If it works then you know what the problem is. If not (which is most likely) then your driver is going bad from corrosion inside it. There may be a way to fix it, but I haven't attempted it. Maybe a higher voltage would knock it loose??? You can often find new horns for these by getting them on Ebay. With the new horn, swap out the driver to your old horn so you keep all the 56 Dodge specific parts with it. That is the approach I have been taking with mine.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-24 11:26 PM (#563999 - in reply to #563994)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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Powerflite - 2018-05-24 10:04 PM

It appears you have a Los Angeles built car with the Jubilee horns. First, check the ground to the driver. Attach a dedicated ground connection to test it out. If it works then you know what the problem is. If not (which is most likely) then your driver is going bad from corrosion inside it. There may be a way to fix it, but I haven't attempted it.


Thanks Nathan. It is an LA-built 56 Dodge. I found this video on fixing an electro-mechanical horn. Seems easy enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG8ivFOjIps

It looks like the big lock nut on my horn and the set screw/adjustment might be the adjustment suggested in the video.

Also looks like taking the horn apart would involve drilling out a bunch of rivets. No biggy. I have drill and lots of pop-rivets solve that problem.




Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-25 12:57 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-24 11:46 PM (#564000 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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I've tried to fix them in the past, and got them working a little better, but never very well.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-27 1:50 AM (#564060 - in reply to #563999)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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56D500boy - 2018-05-24 11:26 PM
It looks like the big lock nut on my horn and the set screw/adjustment might be the adjustment suggested in the video.
Also looks like taking the horn apart would involve drilling out a bunch of rivets. No biggy. I have drill and lots of pop-rivets solve that problem.


Maybe.

I tried the big adjustment screw (after using a crescent wrench on the big lock nut) to see if that helped. Nope.

So I removed the horn from the car and disassembled it.

Two bolts and four rivets. Rivets seem to be 3/16" (at least that is what I used to drill off the crimped end of the rivet).

There are three main parts:

1. The top with the electrics
2. The diaphragm and piston
3. The base and trumpet

The diaphragm is sandwiched between two paper gaskets, one between the diaphragm and the top and one between the diaphragm and the base.

With the top off, I could see that there are dual points. There is a coil driver powered by the 12V connection on the top. There is a very thin resistance wire (like a heater??). There is also a small adjustment screw that pushes on the plate that the points are on. This is the one that I probably could have adjusted to make the horn work. But I didn't know until the horn was apart.

As I understand the function of the horn from the Youtube link I watched above (previous post), when the power to the horn comes through from the horn relay, the coil is energized which pulls (pushes??) the diaphragm piston and its outer ring which in turn causes the connection for the points to be lost. Then the piston goes back to rest position and points make contact again which starts the cycle again. So there is a buzz which is amplified by the "trumpet" and the sound is manifested as a "BEEEP!" (or maybe "BAAAP" seeing as this one is the "LOW" "Jubilee" horn. (NOTE: "Here's something you might not know: the word jubilee comes from the Hebrew word yobel, which means “ram's horn trumpet.”)

So far, in addition to dissembling the horn, I have cleaned the dual points, wire brushed the exterior and put everything but the top into a bath of EvapoRust. Tomorrow I will clean everything up at bit more with a brass wire brush and prep it for paint. I will also Ohm out the internal wires to make sure that the connections are good. I will then make two gaskets (probably from an old file folder - seems to be the right thickness) by tracing the outside, marking the location of the holes, cutting the gaskets out (probably using scissors for the outside and an X-acto knife for the inside),with holes punched with a single hole punch. Then I will reassemble temporarily with spring clamps and try the horn with jumper wires off the battery. Probably try the two adjustment screws. IF it works I will assemble with four 3/16" pop rivets and the two bolts. Then I will try the horn again, adjusting screws as needed before giving the exterior a final sand and a wipe followed by a couple of coats of Tremclad semi-gloss black, masking off the electrical connection and ground bracket areas to ensure good current flow.

When it dries, back into the car and on to the next can of worms - OR - even better - the final front carpet adjustment(s) and installation of the front seat.

I am too easily distracted by issues that aren't serious.





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-27 12:08 PM




(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_BeforeDisassembly.jpg)



(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopOff.jpg)



(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_DiaphragmOff.jpg)



(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_BottomAndTopSeparated.jpg)



(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_LoJubStamping.jpg)



(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopShowingConnectionsAndAdjustments.jpg)



(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopShowingConnectionsAndAdjustments_UnderSide.jpg)



(56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopShowingConnectionsAndAdjustments_UnderSide_Details.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_BeforeDisassembly.jpg (134KB - 64 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopOff.jpg (136KB - 64 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_DiaphragmOff.jpg (151KB - 70 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_BottomAndTopSeparated.jpg (143KB - 67 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_LoJubStamping.jpg (113KB - 64 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopShowingConnectionsAndAdjustments.jpg (159KB - 71 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopShowingConnectionsAndAdjustments_UnderSide.jpg (165KB - 67 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeLABuildLowJubileeHorn_TopShowingConnectionsAndAdjustments_UnderSide_Details.jpg (195KB - 63 downloads)
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Greg P.
Posted 2018-07-06 5:06 PM (#566149 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: RE: Constipated horn



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How'd it end up?
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ttotired
Posted 2018-07-06 7:42 PM (#566163 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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Just for those that don't know, the "strange thin resistance wire" is important, it does the same job as the condenser in a distributor

Without it, the contacts will burn up

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-07 11:33 AM (#566214 - in reply to #566163)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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Greg P. - 2018-07-06 5:06 PM
How'd it end up?


I was away for 3 weeks and am just getting back to all the little projects that I left undone before I went on holiday.

ttotired - 2018-07-06 7:42 PM
Just for those that don't know, the "strange thin resistance wire" is important, it does the same job as the condenser in a distributor.
Without it, the contacts will burn up


Thanks. I did not know that. I hope that I didn't mess that wire up then.

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56D500boy
Posted 2019-09-09 9:36 PM (#587315 - in reply to #564060)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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56D500boy - 2018-05-26 10:50 PM

So far, in addition to dissembling the horn, I have cleaned the dual points, wire brushed the exterior and put everything but the top into a bath of EvapoRust. Tomorrow I will clean everything up at bit more with a brass wire brush and prep it for paint. I will also Ohm out the internal wires to make sure that the connections are good. I will then make two gaskets (probably from an old file folder - seems to be the right thickness) by tracing the outside, marking the location of the holes, cutting the gaskets out (probably using scissors for the outside and an X-acto knife for the inside),with holes punched with a single hole punch. Then I will reassemble temporarily with spring clamps and try the horn with jumper wires off the battery. Probably try the two adjustment screws. IF it works I will assemble with four 3/16" pop rivets and the two bolts. Then I will try the horn again, adjusting screws as needed before giving the exterior a final sand and a wipe followed by a couple of coats of Tremclad semi-gloss black, masking off the electrical connection and ground bracket areas to ensure good current flow.

When it dries, back into the car and on to the next can of worms - OR - even better - the final front carpet adjustment(s) and installation of the front seat.



Well. I let this one slide for more than a year while I tackled more important things (like the carpet, the front seat, etc, etc.) However, yesterday one of my neighbours told me that my (remaining) horn was pathetic (bweep). So I decided to get this horn going again. Once I found all the bits, I tried it.

Big problem is I can't get it to work and I can't figure out why not. I have traced the current flow path (with my DMM on OHMS) and it seems to be fine. But when I put 12V to it, nothing. Not even a spark or a slight buzz.

Any suggestions to fix/diagnose this one, please chime in.

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-09-09 10:28 PM (#587316 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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Most likely, the part that moves and vibrates to create the sound has frozen up. There is also a small gap that creates the vibration, with the gap adjusted by the outer screw. If you take it apart, that gap has now changed and it won't necessarily work until you re-adjust it.

But, you have a 12v Jubilee horn as only Los Angeles built cars do. You can purchase new ones on Ebay and then just swap out the driver to create a brand new horn with your original trumpet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Vintage-Model-A-12-volt-Jubilee-Snail-H...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CAR-HORN-RARE-NOS-NEW-JUBILEE-50s-6...

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-09-09 10:32 PM (#587317 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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One thing you could try is soaking the top part with the adjustment screw on it in a de-rusting solution. I'm not sure what effect that will have on all it's parts, but you could try it before you give up on it. Also try cleaning that lip where the diaphragm touches.

Edited by Powerflite 2019-09-09 10:36 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-09-11 7:38 PM (#587402 - in reply to #587316)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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Powerflite - 2019-09-09 7:28 PM

Most likely, the part that moves and vibrates to create the sound has frozen up. There is also a small gap that creates the vibration, with the gap adjusted by the outer screw. If you take it apart, that gap has now changed and it won't necessarily work until you re-adjust it.

But, you have a 12v Jubilee horn as only Los Angeles built cars do. You can purchase new ones on Ebay and then just swap out the driver to create a brand new horn with your original trumpet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Vintage-Model-A-12-volt-Jubilee-Snail-H...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CAR-HORN-RARE-NOS-NEW-JUBILEE-50s-6...



Thanks Nathan (and everyone who commented/provided suggestions).

Yesterday I created two gaskets for the metal membrane and then bolted the horn back together. I then tried it with battery power at the car, grounding it to the (-) post of the battery and jumping it from the (+) post. All I could get was the same "Tink" than I had way back when before I took it apart. Then I took the horn into the garage and hooked it up to my 12V battery charger ((-) cable clipped to the shell and the (+) cable in my hand, touched to the horn power terminal post. With that and adjusting the big and little adjustment screws I could get a 60 cycle(ish) buzz but not much more. Not a horn sound. I then took it back to the car and tried it connected to the battery again. No improvement. I quit for the day/night.

Today, I chased the two Jubillee horns on eBay and ended up buying both in case one is not appropriate. It looks like at least one of them has the snail going the wrong direction so yes, I will have to disassemble and put the new electrics and diaphragm in the old snail. Presumably one of the two will be available for sale.

In the meantime, I was talking to my fabricator neighbour and he gave me a small Grote brand 12V horn to put into my snail. I took mine apart again and it doesn't look like that would work. However, I think that I can hide the Grote horn in my front grill. Who cares if you have three horns. Maybe I can get the person ahead of me at the light to wake up and get off their cell phone/screen.

Time to move on to a new issue.

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-09-11 8:15 PM (#587403 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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There is a low note and a high note. Both of the ones I listed are low notes. I'm not sure which horn you are trying to fix, but compare the tone to the one that works.

Edit, I just saw that you are dealing with the low note, so you should be good.

Edited by Powerflite 2019-09-11 8:16 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-09-12 12:48 PM (#587428 - in reply to #587403)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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Powerflite - 2019-09-11 5:15 PM
Edit, I just saw that you are dealing with the low note, so you should be good.


Yeh. "LO-JUB". So as long as the diameters of the cases are the same, I should (hopefully) be able to swap the "guts" of the new one into the snail of the old one.

I would like to know where I could get some of the OE style "hollow" rivets. Otherwise I will use Pop rivets.

Unless, I am wrong and the new one(s) spiral in the needed direction. One of them is coming out of Port Angeles WA and only needs to get to Point Roberts WA (about a 2hr drive, if the package could drive itself)

Time will tell.

I mounted and hooked up the extra "GROTE" brand 12V horn before supper last night and it worked for a bit but then I lost both horns (the OE HIGH and the Grote) so I don't know what is up. Hopefully nothing serious.



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-09-12 12:51 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-09-17 7:15 PM (#587676 - in reply to #587428)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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56D500boy - 2019-09-12 9:48 AM
I mounted and hooked up the extra "GROTE" brand 12V horn before supper last night and it worked for a bit but then I lost both horns (the OE HIGH and the Grote) so I don't know what is up. Hopefully nothing serious.


It wasn't serious, I just needed to push the horn ring differently. Worked fine when I figured that out.

Here is the Grote 12V horn installation. I attached it to the inner support for the grill bar (not real easy to do but it worked). Because only the black plastic "trumpet" hangs below the grill bar, the horn virtually visibly (but not aurally) disappears. I know it is there but even I have to get down there before I actually see it. (Doesn't show in the front photo). I might just keep it after I sort out the LO-JUB issue.





Edited by 56D500boy 2019-09-17 7:18 PM




(Grote12VHorn.jpg)



(Grote12VHornInstalledBehind56DodgeGrillBar.jpg)



(Grote12VHornInstalledBehind56DodgeGrillBar_2.jpg)



(Grote12VHornInstalledBehind56DodgeGrillBar_3.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Grote12VHorn.jpg (143KB - 14 downloads)
Attachments Grote12VHornInstalledBehind56DodgeGrillBar.jpg (111KB - 13 downloads)
Attachments Grote12VHornInstalledBehind56DodgeGrillBar_2.jpg (115KB - 14 downloads)
Attachments Grote12VHornInstalledBehind56DodgeGrillBar_3.jpg (126KB - 12 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-09-26 9:54 PM (#587997 - in reply to #587402)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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56D500boy - 2019-09-11 4:38 PM

Today, I chased the two Jubillee horns on eBay and ended up buying both in case one is not appropriate. It looks like at least one of them has the snail going the wrong direction so yes, I will have to disassemble and put the new electrics and diaphragm in the old snail. Presumably one of the two will be available for sale.


Well....

I waited until today when I picked up the second of the two Jubilee 46 LO horns that I bought off eBay to be delivered by my good friends at Fedex-SmartPost (LOL "Smart")

(REFERENCE (only if you want to): http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=72284&... )

I was hoping that the second one would miraculously spiral the way that I needed it for my install. No such luck Exactly the same as the other one. Oh well I tried.

So with two identical NOS Jubilee 46 LOs in hand, I picked one (slightly scratched) to be cannibalized for it's metal diaphragm and electro-magnetic head.

First step was to drill off the rivets (6 in this case (4 in the original)) and punch them out.

Then after a quick cursory check on sizes, etc. I assembled the "FrankenHorn" (NOS guts and OE 56 LA-built Dodge LO-JUB trumpet) using some small machine screws and lock nuts (for now - I will use rivets once I know this is for real).

I had checked the NOS horns for working (BBBEEEEPP!!) before I picked and disassembled the one and then immediately after assembling the FrankenHorn using a short jumper wire and grounding the body of the horn on the (-) post of the battery. Worked. Scared the cr@p out of me to be honest. OK OK it works already.

I temporarily located it on the hood latch bracket. I need to find the 1/4" x 28 nuts that have gone walk-about and find a new bolt to replace one that broke but at least I have a horn that looks (is) correct and works (will work). Not sure if I will change the terminal on the new electrical head to the old post style or not. Maybe but not right now. Get it working 100% first.

Thanks again, Nathan for making the suggestion of swapping new "guts" into the old "trumpet".

Photos from today:



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-09-26 10:01 PM




(NOSJubilee46LOHornAsReceived.jpg)



(NOSJubilee46LOHorn_RivetsDrilledAndPunchedOut.jpg)



(NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_Side1.jpg)



(NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_MetalMembrane_Side1.jpg)



(NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_MetalMembrane_Side2.jpg)



(NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_ElectroMagnetWorkings.jpg)



(NOSJubileeLOHornTrumpets_NOS46OnLeft_OEDodgeOnRight.jpg)



(NOSJubileeLOHornTrumpets_NOS46OnLeft_OEDodgeOnRight_WithNOSGutsInstalledInIt.jpg)



(FrankenHornTemporaryilyInstalledOnHoodLatchBracketAsPerOE_ExceptFlipped.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments NOSJubilee46LOHornAsReceived.jpg (111KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments NOSJubilee46LOHorn_RivetsDrilledAndPunchedOut.jpg (113KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_Side1.jpg (82KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_MetalMembrane_Side1.jpg (103KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_MetalMembrane_Side2.jpg (109KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments NOSJubilee46LOHornDissassembled_ElectroMagnetWorkings.jpg (115KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments NOSJubileeLOHornTrumpets_NOS46OnLeft_OEDodgeOnRight.jpg (112KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments NOSJubileeLOHornTrumpets_NOS46OnLeft_OEDodgeOnRight_WithNOSGutsInstalledInIt.jpg (97KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments FrankenHornTemporaryilyInstalledOnHoodLatchBracketAsPerOE_ExceptFlipped.jpg (129KB - 10 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-09-29 1:24 PM (#588119 - in reply to #587997)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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56D500boy - 2019-09-26 6:54 PM

I temporarily located it on the hood latch bracket. I need to find the 1/4" x 28 nuts that have gone walk-about and find a new bolt to replace one that broke but at least I have a horn that looks (is) correct and works (will work). Not sure if I will change the terminal on the new electrical head to the old post style or not. Maybe but not right now. Get it working 100% first.


Okay. I could NOT live with the spade connection 12V power terminal so I found the old horn "head" and noted that the large hex connection terminal post was attached to the head via one machine screw, as shown below:



So I removed it, noting all the order of all the washers and electrical insulators (it is for 12V pos in and can not touch the body of the horn head without electrial insulation).

Then I disassembled the Frankenhorn (only head together with 10-24 machine screws and lock nuts at this point) and drilled off the rivet that held the spade terminal to the head. In doing so I expected to find the wire to the electromagnet coil had a ring terminal. NOPE. Just a coil of solid copper wire (18 gauge?) that went under the rivet. Then I checked the OLD OE set-up and sure enough, not ring terminal, just the wire twisted into a circle.

Attached to old OE hex terminal to the new horn head using the new rubber washers, etc. and the reassembled the horn. Mounted it with 1/4"x28 nuts that I was able for buy (didn't find my old ones) at a very good hardware shop. No equivalent 1/4" x 28 bolts (to attach the horn bracket to the hood latch bracket) so I used on OE 1/4" x28 bolt and one 10-24 machine screw and nut (for now). I found 1/4" x 28 bolts at Acklands-Grainger an ordered a box of 100 for $7.50 delivered to their store (this is cheaper than McMaster-Carr BTW). They said Tuesday. No biggy.

So now I have three horns and together they definitely get your attention.

Photos:



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-09-29 1:26 PM




(FrankenHornPermenantlyInstalledOnHoodLatchBracketAsPerOE_ExceptFlipped.jpg)



(FrankenHornPermenantlyInstalledOnHoodLatchBracketAsPerOE_WithOETerminalSwappedON.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments FrankenHornPermenantlyInstalledOnHoodLatchBracketAsPerOE_ExceptFlipped.jpg (128KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments FrankenHornPermenantlyInstalledOnHoodLatchBracketAsPerOE_WithOETerminalSwappedON.jpg (134KB - 9 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-01 7:43 PM (#588275 - in reply to #588119)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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56D500boy - 2019-09-29 10:24 AM Mounted it with 1/4"x28 nuts that I was able for buy (didn't find my old ones) at a very good hardware shop. No equivalent 1/4" x 28 bolts (to attach the horn bracket to the hood latch bracket) so I used on OE 1/4" x28 bolt and one 10-24 machine screw and nut (for now). I found 1/4" x 28 bolts at Acklands-Grainger an ordered a box of 100 for $7.50 delivered to their store (this is cheaper than McMaster-Carr BTW). They said Tuesday.


Got a phone call from Acklands this AM. "Your bolts are in". Okay. Go down and pay my $7.50 CDN plus 12% tax and receive my bag of 100 bolts labeled 1/4" x 1" x 28 Made in China. Hmm...

Get home. Open the bag, extract one bolt. Try it. NOPE. Then I look at it. NOT 28. Probably 20 maybe 24 but NOT 28. Perfect.

Is this part of some Chinese plot to FK us up with inferior and wrongly sized parts?



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-01 9:26 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-10-01 8:31 PM (#588278 - in reply to #563991)
Subject: RE: Constipated horn



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Yep, seems to be their standard procedure. Take a good quality American (or other) designed tool or part, throw out all the tolerances & material requirements and re-design it to be cheap. No one to complain to when it doesn't work.
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-10-11 8:43 PM (#588706 - in reply to #588275)
Subject: Re: Constipated horn



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56D500boy - 2019-10-01 4:43 PM
Got a phone call from Acklands this AM. "Your bolts are in". Okay. Go down and pay my $7.50 CDN plus 12% tax and receive my bag of 100 bolts labeled 1/4" x 1" x 28 Made in China. Hmm...
Get home. Open the bag, extract one bolt. Try it. NOPE. Then I look at it. NOT 28. Probably 20 maybe 24 but NOT 28. Perfect.


After that exercise, I contacted Acklands Grainger and they agreed to try again. To be honest, I had forgotten about it when they phoned this AM and said that my order was in.

Went down this afternoon and picked up the bag of 100, 1/4" x 1" x 28 (UNF) bolts. Opened the bag in the store and sure enough they were 28 (the other ones were 20 (UNC)). No money changed hands, I gave them the bag of the 20s and left with the bag of 28s.

Removed that machine screw (and nut) and installed one of the new bolts when I got home. Looks better. Bolt head isn't like the others but at least it is a bolt.

Now I have 99 bolts that need a home.





Edited by 56D500boy 2019-10-11 8:45 PM
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