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Expert
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Location: NY & VT | In '58 DeSoto was the first division to exclusively use the newly introduced low-deck LB versions of the "B" serves wedge head engine, with a 1 year only 350 in Firesweeps and the 361 in 'domes & 'flites, while Chrysler still had a 354 poly in Windsor and Saratoga, and 392 hemi in NYer and 300D.
In '59 DeSoto exclusively used a 2 bbl 361 in FireSweeps, but was a 2 or 4 bbl 361 also available as an economy option in Firedomes or Fireflites, which usually had 383s? Chrysler in '59 had a "raised deck" RB version of 383 in all models afaik, but was any version of 361 available as an economy option for Windsor?
Edited by firedome 2018-02-19 5:14 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | 59 used the M-code 383 in Firedomes (2bbl) and Fireflites (4bbl).
Sweeps got a 361 (2bbl) with 4bbl optional on both Sweep and
Firedome. I am unaware of the 361 ever being a Chrysler app.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7206
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Doctor DeSoto - 2018-02-19 7:06 PM
59 used the M-code 383 in Firedomes (2bbl) and Fireflites (4bbl).
Sweeps got a 361 (2bbl) with 4bbl optional on both Sweep and
Firedome. I am unaware of the 361 ever being a Chrysler app.
In Canada, the 1959 Canadian built Windsor had a 361 LB and the Saratoga came with a 383 LB. In the USA those same models both used a 383 RB. The same continued for 1960 through 1964 for Chryslers built in Canada. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Crazy Canadians ! Always gotta be "different" ! 
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | That's what I thought, so was a 361 available in '59 Firedome or 'flites as an economy de-contented option? I'm looking at a '59 'dome that claims to be a 361, but I'm dubious about that, as Brent says I always though the '59 'dome had a 2 bbl 383., and it's too far away to look at the block stampings.
Ya the one Canadian craziness I never got was the 313 vs 318 thing... just weird. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | In the main, through the FL years, like others, Mother Mopar staggered
their engine size offerings upward as one climbed the make/model price
ladder, but this old system was soon to come to an end and engines were
more of an option thing than a standard assigned engine to a given range
of car and model. But in the old system, Chrysler had to have "more"
engine than a DeSoto, as DeSoto had to have "more" engine than Dodge,
and on down the line.
In 1955, both DeSoto lines got the 290, with the Fireflite have a 4bbl as
standard, as part of the "value" in buying the pricier model. The process
was repeated in 56 with the 330, except the Adventurer began to unravel
the system by needing to me "more", and thusly had its own overbore dis-
-placement of 341. Each year also had to "up" the game, and for 57, the
big 341 Adventurer displacement was standard fare for both regular DeSoto
models, with the Adventurer again pushing to something larger at 345ci.
In 57, the old system unraveled further with DeSoto selling Dodges with
some DeSoto body skin as their new bottom end model, Firesweep. In
keeping with the downscaled theme, Firesweep would always trail the real
DeSotos in engine size. For 57 they used a standard Dodge 325 poly.
With the 1958 model year, DeSoto introduced the new wedge engine that
would soon become the corporate standard for the next decade and beyond,
and the whole game of divisional engines began to wind down. All real
DeSotos got a 361LB, with carburation being the main difference. Firesweep
got an underbored version (350) with a 2bbl, standard. Dodge would offer
the 350 as their D500.
In 59, ALL DeSotos got the wedge again, following the trend of the larger
displacement each year, this year bumping up to 383 for real DeSotos and
Firesweep getting the 361. Throughout all these years, all standard models
except Fireflite came equipped with 2bbl carburation, unless optioned up to
4bbl. Adventurer, being part of the specialized performance model series
always stood on its own for added go-fast goodies.
The monkey wrench in all this structuring was that for 59, DeSoto took the
cue from Dodge's D500 idea, and offered the go-fast Adventurer engine in any
model they made, even the Firesweep. And while some semblence of engine
to make/model structure did remain after 58, the old system of rather rigid
structure became less and less.
Exceptions always remained. You were not going to get a 6-cylinder in a
DeSoto, just as the company was not going to put a 392 in a Plaza. But by
and large, that is how DeSoto models and engines were structured through
the first two generations of the Forward Look.
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | So in '59 you could upgrade any model to an Adventurer engine, but could you "downgrade" a Firedome or 'flite to a 361? That is the question. Again I always thought all Firedomes had a 383 2 bbl and upgrades were optional, but this particular Firedome claims to have a 361... go figure. |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
Never heard of downgrading a Firedome to a 361. You cannot tell a 361 from a 363 as the blocks are the same externally. There is also a possibility someone has swapped out a dead 383 for a working 361 sometime in the past fifty years. You need the engine number to know what the engine really is.
The 1958 and 1959 Dodge D500 engine was also the DeSoto Fireflite engine. The 1959 Fireflite had five more advertised horsepower than the D500, but both used carburetor 2794S.
Dodge in 1958 used the Dodge 325 engine in the Coronet and Royal while the Custom Royal used the B block 350. The B block 361 was optional on all V8 models. For 1959 the Coronet V8 had the A block 326 poly as standard while the Royal and Custom Royal had the 361 B block. The low block 383 was optional on all V8 models.
Chrysler of Canada did not build any 1957 DeSoto models, instead importing Firedome, Fireflite and Adventurer. For 1958 the Firedome (LS2-M) was built in Canada but used Chrysler's 2-bbl 354 poly engine, which was also used in the Canadian-built Custom Royal (LD3-H) and Windsor (LC2-M). The engines were the same for all three, although DeSoto used a different carburetor for part (middle) of the model year. The Firedome was advertised at 295 bhp. the Windsor at 290 bhp and the Custom Royal at 275 bhp. All had 10.0:1 compression ratio. As they used to claim in the 1950's and 1960's - advertised horsepower.
The low block 383 was used in Canadian-built 1959-65 Chrysler Saratoga, 1959 DeSoto Firedome and 1960 Adventurer. The raised block 383 was used only on US-built 1959-60 Chrysler Windsor and Saratoga models. The Canadian-built 1959-65 Chrysler Windsor, 1959 Dodge Custom Royal and 1960 Dodge Polara used the B block 361 V8. No 1961 Polara or 1962-64 Dodge 880 models in Canada.
And you could get a six cylinder engine in a DeSoto Firesweep. In mid-1957 DeSoto decided to offer a taxi model based on the Fireweep. The standard engine was Dodge's 230.6-cid engine. At the beginning of the 1957 model year the engine number prefix on the Coronet six was D-72, but on January 10, 1957 the engine number prefix changed to KDS6 (K - 1957, D - Dodge, S - deSoto, 6 - 6 cylinder). The highest D72 prefix was around 9510 and the first KDS6 began at 9601 and ended at 18892. According to the serial number sequence for the 6 cylinder DeSoto Firesweep (59,001,001 to 59,001,139), a total of 139 were built. No idea how many V8 Firesweep taxis were built.
DeSoto tried again for 1958, with the model number being LS1T. No idea how many were built, if any, as I have never come across an ending serial number (LS1T-1001 and up). Neither the six cylinder engine nor the taxi series was offered in 1959.
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Excellent info, thanks Bill!
If I can get more info on the alleged "361" engined '59 Firedome I will report back.
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Low deck "B" wedge engines applications in Mopar's '59 "senior" cars
