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decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer
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57RID500
Posted 2018-01-14 11:57 AM (#556210)
Subject: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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Could someone help decode the attached IBm Punch card for my 1957 dodge Lancer 2 dr D 500?

Thanks Bob
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-14 12:57 PM (#556215 - in reply to #556210)
Subject: RE: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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57RID500 - 2018-01-14 11:57 AM Could someone help decode the attached IBM Punch card for my 1957 dodge Lancer 2 dr D 500?
Thanks Bob


Well, you're in the right place now Bob.

57RID500 - 2018-01-14 12:01 PM I keep trying, First message is file must be less than 500 mgb! so I cut picture in half, Now message is must be less than 250 MGB!


The limit is 250 kB (kilo not mega bytes). 1024 x 764 is usually around 150 kB which is usually an option but with a IBM card you will want to keep resizing until it is just under 250 kB.

And .jpg, not .jpeg, right?

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-14 4:59 PM (#556229 - in reply to #556215)
Subject: RE: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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Bob sent me a photo of his IBM card. I processed the photo through Irfanview (free ware). I trimmed it to the essentials and then resized the remainder (a few trials) until what I had was 249 kB (< 250 kB = win). See below.

If the engine number on the engine matches the card and the VIN number matches, you have a real 57 D500 there Bob. Congrats.







(57D500IBMCard_small.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 57D500IBMCard_small.jpg (249KB - 204 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-14 5:06 PM (#556230 - in reply to #556229)
Subject: RE: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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4LPL paint code:

4 - Paint scheme where saddle area is different colour from the roof, fins and lower. (this is from Chrycoman (Bill W.))
L is glacier white
P is gallant gold
L is glacier white

So white roof and fins
gallant gold saddle
white lower body

Like this?



??


Edited by 56D500boy 2018-01-14 5:31 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-14 5:13 PM (#556232 - in reply to #556230)
Subject: RE: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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Based on the VIN starting with 372 it is a 57 Dodge Royal or Custom Royal built in Detroit





(57DodgeVINs.jpg)



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----------------
Attachments 57DodgeVINs.jpg (134KB - 205 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-14 5:32 PM (#556235 - in reply to #556232)
Subject: RE: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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Bob:

Some potentially helpful threads:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=56626&...

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=56212&...

This one is for a 58 but it might be helpful anyway:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66206&...


Edited by 56D500boy 2018-01-14 5:32 PM
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57RID500
Posted 2018-01-14 6:10 PM (#556239 - in reply to #556210)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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it is a Royal Lancer. Not a custom Royal. The colors and paint scheme, are as you indicate and are like the picture you posted. My rims are white not gold as in the picture. Car has carpet, seat belts, dual rear antennas, push button radio ( not the search option ), rear speaker,.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-14 6:22 PM (#556241 - in reply to #556239)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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Bob: If you find and photograph and then post the cowl tag we might be able to confirm a few things.

This kind of tag:



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-15 10:53 AM (#556283 - in reply to #556241)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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56D500boy - 2018-01-14 6:22 PM
Bob: If you find and photograph and then post the cowl tag we might be able to confirm a few things.
:)


Bob sent me a photo of his tag. I have trimmed it and resized it and present it here for us to help Bob decifer what it means:





(BobRiccis57D500DataPlateTrimmed_Small.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments BobRiccis57D500DataPlateTrimmed_Small.jpg (185KB - 214 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-15 11:51 AM (#556288 - in reply to #556283)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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Based on what I see, Bob's codes are

293 = Same as on that white tag, from reading other 57 code threads, I *think* 293 = Torqueflite Trans
411 = same as on that white tag
469 = ?
485 = ?
502 = same as on that white tag
513 = same as on that white tag
585 = same as on that white tag

The thread for the white tag = http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=56626&...

Another 57 D500 thread had this tag:



Which only has the 293 and 485 codes in common with Bob's golden tag.

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64908&...

The FCA Historical letter for the above tag was this:



off this IBM card



Up close left:



Up close right:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-01-15 3:37 PM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-01-15 6:17 PM (#556341 - in reply to #556283)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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56D500boy - 2018-01-15 10:53 AM

56D500boy - 2018-01-14 6:22 PM
Bob: If you find and photograph and then post the cowl tag we might be able to confirm a few things.
:)


Bob sent me a photo of his tag. I have trimmed it and resized it and present it here for us to help Bob decifer what it means:



Bob, your body plate indicates a Royal 2Dr HT, D500, delivered by truck, torqueflite, undercoating, power brakes, music master radio, heater/defroster, backup lights, left outside mirror, day/nite mirror, handbrake warning light, map and glovebox lights, variable speed wipers, w/s washer, vanity mirror, airfoam rear seat, stone shields, plastic steering wheel and spinner wheel covers.

Nice Car !!
Greg
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57RID500
Posted 2018-01-15 6:21 PM (#556342 - in reply to #556210)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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Greg it has all of those options. Also, rear speaker and black carpet. Can you determine if those were factory options or installed at a later date? Bob
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-01-15 6:33 PM (#556343 - in reply to #556342)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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57RID500 - 2018-01-15 6:21 PM

Greg it has all of those options. Also, rear speaker and black carpet. Can you determine if those were factory options or installed at a later date? Bob


If it has a hole punched in card column 36 at the. "4" level it has carpet. A hole at level "2" in card column 39 would be rear speaker. I can't read the card!

Greg
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-15 6:49 PM (#556344 - in reply to #556341)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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LD3 Greg - 2018-01-15 6:17 PM
Bob, your body plate indicates a Royal 2Dr HT, D500, delivered by truck, torqueflite, undercoating, power brakes, music master radio, heater/defroster, backup lights, left outside mirror, day/nite mirror, handbrake warning light, map and glovebox lights, variable speed wipers, w/s washer, vanity mirror, airfoam rear seat, stone shields, plastic steering wheel and spinner wheel covers. Nice Car !! Greg


Greg: For future reference, could you line up your words with these numbers from Bob's body tag plate? I still would like to see the secret decoder ring for this stuff.

293 = Torqueflite Trans
411 = ?
469 = ?
485 = ?
502 = ?
513 = ?
585 = ?





(SecretDecoderRing_Mopar.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments SecretDecoderRing_Mopar.jpg (16KB - 203 downloads)
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-01-15 10:18 PM (#556360 - in reply to #556344)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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56D500boy - 2018-01-15 6:49 PM

LD3 Greg - 2018-01-15 6:17 PM
Bob, your body plate indicates a Royal 2Dr HT, D500, delivered by truck, torqueflite, undercoating, power brakes, music master radio, heater/defroster, backup lights, left outside mirror, day/nite mirror, handbrake warning light, map and glovebox lights, variable speed wipers, w/s washer, vanity mirror, airfoam rear seat, stone shields, plastic steering wheel and spinner wheel covers. Nice Car !! Greg


Greg: For future reference, could you line up your words with these numbers from Bob's body tag plate? I still would like to see the secret decoder ring for this stuff.

293 = Torqueflite Trans
411 = ?
469 = ?
485 = ?
502 = ?
513 = ?
585 = ?


Here is what I think.
All of these codes are meaningless to anyone other than the assembly line workers who assemble, paint and trim the bodies before "body drop". They are NOT sales codes. The broadcast sheets and the punch cards use the sales/order codes. I have no idea why Dodge didn't use sales codes on the plates. The body plate, of course, is a metal work order instead of paper sheets for use on welding and paint lines. These weird codes gave all the info to build the body.
For example.
293 is sales code 323 = TF
411 ------------- 401 = undercoat
469 ---------------339. = power brakes
485 ---------------675. = route, which is the type of delivery. In this case by truck.
And so on.
Now that we have Bill to interpret the actual punch cards we have all the info needed.
Greg
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-15 10:53 PM (#556366 - in reply to #556360)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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LD3 Greg - 2018-01-15 10:18 PM
56D500boy - 2018-01-15 6:49 PM
Greg: For future reference, could you line up your words with these numbers from Bob's body tag plate? I still would like to see the secret decoder ring for this stuff.


Here is what I think.
All of these codes are meaningless to anyone other than the assembly line workers who assemble, paint and trim the bodies before "body drop". They are NOT sales codes. The broadcast sheets and the punch cards use the sales/order codes. I have no idea why Dodge didn't use sales codes on the plates. The body plate, of course, is a metal work order instead of paper sheets for use on welding and paint lines. These weird codes gave all the info to build the body.
For example.
293 is sales code 323 = TF
411 ------------- 401 = undercoat
469 ---------------339. = power brakes
485 ---------------675. = route, which is the type of delivery. In this case by truck.
And so on.
Now that we have Bill to interpret the actual punch cards we have all the info needed.
Greg


This is a lot of this:



whereas it should be more about this (which you will recognize, being a co-creator with D500Neil, I believe)

REF: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64908&...



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-01-15 10:56 PM




(NeilAndGregsBuildSheetCheatSheet.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments NeilAndGregsBuildSheetCheatSheet.jpg (82KB - 260 downloads)
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-01-16 12:41 AM (#556371 - in reply to #556366)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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56D500boy - 2018-01-15 10:53 PM

LD3 Greg - 2018-01-15 10:18 PM
56D500boy - 2018-01-15 6:49 PM
Greg: For future reference, could you line up your words with these numbers from Bob's body tag plate? I still would like to see the secret decoder ring for this stuff.


Here is what I think.
All of these codes are meaningless to anyone other than the assembly line workers who assemble, paint and trim the bodies before "body drop". They are NOT sales codes. The broadcast sheets and the punch cards use the sales/order codes. I have no idea why Dodge didn't use sales codes on the plates. The body plate, of course, is a metal work order instead of paper sheets for use on welding and paint lines. These weird codes gave all the info to build the body.
For example.
293 is sales code 323 = TF
411 ------------- 401 = undercoat
469 ---------------339. = power brakes
485 ---------------675. = route, which is the type of delivery. In this case by truck.
And so on.
Now that we have Bill to interpret the actual punch cards we have all the info needed.
Greg


This is a lot of this:



whereas it should be more about this (which you will recognize, being a co-creator with D500Neil, I believe)

REF: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64908&...


Well, actually, it is my handwriting and I couldn't care less what you believe!! Like it or not that gives a readable account of all broadcast sheet actual sales codes for 57 Dodge at the time of that revision. Deal with it ---- work with it ---- expand on it ---- but don't piss on it!! Go ahead! Find a better source for this info!! If you do, please forward it to me. In the meantime, stick your pins up your ass!!
Greg
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-16 1:24 AM (#556372 - in reply to #556371)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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LD3 Greg - 2018-01-16 12:41 AM
Well, actually, it is my handwriting and I couldn't care less what you believe!! Like it or not that gives a readable account of all broadcast sheet actual sales codes for 57 Dodge at the time of that revision. Deal with it ---- work with it ---- expand on it ---- but don't piss on it!! Go ahead! Find a better source for this info!! If you do, please forward it to me. In the meantime, stick your pins up your ass!!
Greg


Wow. That blew up real good. Sorry, there was NO offense intended. Apparently it was taken, regardless. I apologize for that.

I was actually complimenting you (and D500Neil) on creating that sheet and at the same time questioning how mere mortals can use that information when some line 469 miraculously and mysteriously becomes 339 = power brakes. Decoding a build tag or broadcast sheet should be more transparent than apparently it is. More information needs to be shared and not held by just a few.

It is tedious for myself and perhaps others to beg for interpretation of build tags and IBM cards when the information should be more widely made available.

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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-01-18 12:20 AM (#556490 - in reply to #556360)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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LD3 Greg - 2018-01-15 10:18 PM

56D500boy - 2018-01-15 6:49 PM

LD3 Greg - 2018-01-15 6:17 PM
Bob, your body plate indicates a Royal 2Dr HT, D500, delivered by truck, torqueflite, undercoating, power brakes, music master radio, heater/defroster, backup lights, left outside mirror, day/nite mirror, handbrake warning light, map and glovebox lights, variable speed wipers, w/s washer, vanity mirror, airfoam rear seat, stone shields, plastic steering wheel and spinner wheel covers. Nice Car !! Greg


Greg: For future reference, could you line up your words with these numbers from Bob's body tag plate? I still would like to see the secret decoder ring for this stuff.

293 = Torqueflite Trans
411 = ?
469 = ?
485 = ?
502 = ?
513 = ?
585 = ?


Here is what I think.
All of these codes are meaningless to anyone other than the assembly line workers who assemble, paint and trim the bodies before "body drop". They are NOT sales codes. The broadcast sheets and the punch cards use the sales/order codes. I have no idea why Dodge didn't use sales codes on the plates. The body plate, of course, is a metal work order instead of paper sheets for use on welding and paint lines. These weird codes gave all the info to build the body.
For example.
293 is sales code 323 = TF
411 ------------- 401 = undercoat
469 ---------------339. = power brakes
485 ---------------675. = route, which is the type of delivery. In this case by truck.
And so on.
Now that we have Bill to interpret the actual punch cards we have all the info needed.
Greg


My turn to say "Wow"!!!----!!!
I told you this and you responded with "decoder ring and voodoo doll pics". If this is the frivolous manner you choose to regard years of work of many, many members of our Forward Look Fraturnity you might better find another hobby! Of course I will "pass on" all my info but it will be to seasoned responsible members!

Greg

Greg
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-01-18 1:10 AM (#556491 - in reply to #556490)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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LD3 Greg - 2018-01-18 12:20 AM My turn to say "Wow"!!!----!!!
I told you this and you responded with "decoder ring and voodoo doll pics". If this is the frivolous manner you choose to regard years of work of many, many members of our Forward Look Fraturnity you might better find another hobby! Of course I will "pass on"
all my info but it will be to seasoned responsible members! Greg


I responded with decorder rings and voodoo dolls because I found the transition from one set of numbers to another set of numbers, as you presented them, to be seemingly magic, black or what have you. It followed no apparent logic.

Where can I see all the work that these many, many members of the FL fraternity have archived here on the forum for all members to see and use? I and others would love to be able to access this info and figure things out for ourselves
rather than having to bother you and/or Bill W. or whoever else is one of the keepers of this knowledge.

I once asked about all the D500 information held by D500Neil and who did he pass it on to before he died.

The answer was "No one. It died with Neil."

(Which I found to be sad on at least three or four levels).

I don't want a fight, I'm still waiting for somebody to decode my body tag and IBM card as I posted up probably close to a year ago. Obviously, that person will not be you.






Edited by 56D500boy 2018-01-18 1:22 AM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-01-20 12:37 AM (#556594 - in reply to #556491)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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Hey, Dave, there is NOTHING to fight about!! I know absolutely nothing about 56 anything other than I saw a 56CRL, D500, 2 Dr HT in a driveway in Daytona Beach and didn't have the sense to bring it home.

Starting back in the 80's, Neil and I mailed out questionnaires to each and every 57/58 Dodge owners we could find. There were hundreds of responses complete with family stories and car histories from the time they were sold new. We spent years, trial and error style, trying to make sense of it all. We would report back to our submissions with whatever we could ? determine! We ALWAYS regarded that participation in our questionnaire would be confidential. Neither Neil or I EVER demanded a fee for anything we did.

We made up our own data base. It seemed to work repeatedly. In other words it was never proven wrong. BUT, I can't PROVE any of it!! You guys are aggressive and push me to "prove" things! I can't do that without naming cars and names and I WILL NOT do that.

When Neil and I got punch card copies they were nothing but "ink blots"! Imaging today is better! This gives us all a leg up. Broadcast sheets give us the REAL sales/order codes so we really have good stuff to work with. BUT, always remember that all these forms got revised during a production year and it is important that one compares documents that were in place at the same date.

A difficult subject! Go for it!!
Greg

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57burb
Posted 2018-03-06 8:50 AM (#559320 - in reply to #556594)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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Greg, you may be getting defensive when there is no need to be.

These cars are now 60 years old. They are rarely found in any condition today. Finding a '57-58 Dodge that is an untouched, documented original car that could be useful for adding information to a central database is something even a dedicated hobbyist may never find.

The "Dodge Codes" are completely indecipherable to the new hobbyist. You (and Neil, and to a large extent, Bill) have created the only usable resource anywhere that can be used to untangle these codes - right here on this website! Your hard work is greatly appreciated. Unless Chrysler decides to release their information, assuming it even exists, the posts shared here are as close to a comprehensive resource as exists. Thanks again.

Edited by 57burb 2018-03-06 8:54 AM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-03-07 10:41 PM (#559431 - in reply to #559320)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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57burb - 2018-03-06 8:50 AM

Greg, you may be getting defensive when there is no need to be.

These cars are now 60 years old. They are rarely found in any condition today. Finding a '57-58 Dodge that is an untouched, documented original car that could be useful for adding information to a central database is something even a dedicated hobbyist may never find.

The "Dodge Codes" are completely indecipherable to the new hobbyist. You (and Neil, and to a large extent, Bill) have created the only usable resource anywhere that can be used to untangle these codes - right here on this website! Your hard work is greatly appreciated. Unless Chrysler decides to release their information, assuming it even exists, the posts shared here are as close to a comprehensive resource as exists. Thanks again.


Thanks Danny. I like and respect your work too!

If anyone sends me a closeup of a 57 Dodge body plate and a brief description of the car, I will decode it the best I can. Send Bill a readable copy of the punch card and I will co-operate any way I can. No cost involved. I regard this as being helpful not defensive.

Greg

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LD3 Greg
Posted 2018-03-07 11:43 PM (#559433 - in reply to #559431)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer


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FYI. Over the years, numerous members have contacted me for help when their body plate was rusted, seriously damaged or just missing. I worked with them through photos of their cars, search for part numbers etc. and Chrysler Historical reports. I suggested the missing format and they had new plates made.

C'mon, Danny! This can't sound defensive to you?!

Greg
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57burb
Posted 2018-03-08 11:45 AM (#559454 - in reply to #559433)
Subject: Re: decode 1957 D 500, 2dr Lancer



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Nope! What you have done for the hobby is invaluable. Your knowledge and your willingness to share it - and your time - are greatly appreciated.

I was only commenting on the goofy pictures of the decoder ring and the teddy bear. I think that is just his way of saying that decoding Dodges is still a mysterious black art to most people.

You might have taken it as a slight toward you, but I don't think that's what he meant at all. Back to the Dodges!
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