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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
 
Location: Alberta | Not much forward look info mainly the views on "restoration". Excellent reading
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/12/18/fiva-mint-condition-restora... |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I've been making this argument for decades.
When I first got into old cars, "fixing them up" was the natural
thing to do. What THAT meant at the time, was making everything
all pretty and polished and as fancily dressed up in options as one
could make them. But long before my car nut friends caught the
bug (and some never have), it occurred to me that the excitement
I had when finding a car, as-is, "barn fresh" and covered in years
and years of dust was vastly more fulfilling than seeing the pristinely
over-restored trailer queen examples. Of the cars I made really nice,
I actually enjoyed them far more when they weren't all perfect. The
historic flavor of what they had been was lost and now they were
just another overly shiney car at a car show. The guys at car shows
with mirrors under their cars was the final straw. When you reach
that level of anal retentive social disorder, you have successfully
turned what might have been a really neat automobile into a static
"paperweight" for holding the concrete down on the shop floor. What
is the point, besides impressing other men of similar mindset ? This
is when the concept of "man magnets" came into my vernacular and
my whole idea of what old cars are about changed.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 406
Location: Hilltown, PA |
I left the car hobby some 20 years ago because I was increasingly disgusted with ridiculous prices for everything from cars to parts to literature, and the lack of available parts to allow the "hobby" car guy to restore a car because the "professionals" were grabbing everything up and hoarding it for their early retirement.
Fast forward to a few months ago - with a bit better financial situation than when I was younger I decided to take the leap and re-enter the hobby with the purchase of a driver quality vehicle. Certainly expensive by my own former (and still present) gauge of values, I felt the price of admission was tolerable, if not entirely reasonable.
After a few months back I find myself starting to feel disgusted again. While the availability of parts is generally much better, and the prices generally not so crazy (mostly), I am increasingly appalled at the total focus on "values" and "pricing" throughout the hobby. I thought this was about the cars - not the money.
Add to that the preponderance of over-restored cars that not only drive prices on donor cars, projects cars, and parts ever upwards for the rest of us, but also discourage and devalue the notion of maintaining the history of a vehicle when possible. One excellent example is Graveyard Cars where every vehicle is so overdone - as a matter of shop procedure and policy - that someone watching the show would think that the cars manufactured in the 60's and 70's were so fantastic it's a wonder how they ever got old . . .
For now I'm going to reserve judgment - I didn't have the opportunity to get out to many shows this past year because we got the car late in the season. I'm hoping that come spring, and the chance to get out and interact with the people who make up the hobby, I'll find the focus is more where it belongs - on the cars.
If not, well, I can think of a few places where the time and money might be better spent.
I'm not alone in my thinking on this - it's truly depressing how many guys who started out as car enthusiasts and became professional techs have given up on their first and favorite hobby because of these factors, and the overall effect on the hobby.
Gregg
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | I agree 100% with you guys. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | Forget about most of the shows. Very few of them are worth attending...unless they have a swap meet with it.  Build your car and drive it. That's probably the best use for it. I attend vintage camping events with my '56 Plymouth that are a lot of fun and that my wife & kids enjoy too because it isn't just sitting around at a car show with people bragging about the bottom side of their car or the bottom end of their motor. Group cruising can be fun too, depending on who you go with and what you do.
As for the price; the price of participation in the forwardlook group is guaranteed to continue to go up in the long term. There just aren't enough of these cars around anymore. Once people figure out how neat & special they are, the demand will go up, but the supply gets ever smaller - regardless. So I figure you had better get what you want now because the longer you wait, the harder it becomes to afford it. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | I am happy to modify a car somewhat, but I never want to destroy the soul of a car
This means no body changes, original style engine (factory available bigger is ok as long as its the same
configuration as is manufacturer consistent, LS1 instead of 350 chev, but not LS1 instead of 6cyl) and dash and seating to be the same
as in original style pattern, but different materials ok
Basically, the car should look basically stock with period correct upgrades and safety upgrades and driveline upgrades as well, but I will always enjoy
looking at a poly in a Plymouth more than an srt engine which will never look right, but is still interesting
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| Basing your happiness on other people is a formula for failure. Everyone participates for their own reasons. Purists, modifiers and everything in the middle. Do what makes you happy and don't worry about everyone else. If you want a cheap fully restored piece, that's hard to find. You can find really nice 4 door cars from 10-25k. Most of the people I hear bitching about the cost of the hobby want premium models for base model prices. I had a REALLY nice 61 Dodge Seneca /6 3 on the tree in my early days. It costs me 6500.00. I had an absolute blast in that car in the mid 2000's. It was not a decked our polara. The cost of chrome and paint has is to due to other market issues, that has nothing to do with the collector market. You have a choice to be happy when it comes to your hobby. If you're not happy, that's on you. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | As for the Charter of Turin Handbook mentioned above, it sounds like a good source for toilet paper. Build your car the way you want it. Just keep in mind that not everyone will appreciate your modifications. But if you aren't building it to sell or put it into a museum, and don't care about resale value, just ignore all that and do what you want. Many small mods actually increase the value like electronic ignition, disc brakes, etc. just because the vast majority of people want those mods on their cars as well. But with mods like frenched taillights, shaved handles, Cadillac lenses, modern consoles or steering wheels, blaringly wrong motor, non-period seat fabric etc, you are on your own and will have a much harder time getting rid of it later as a result. But convert an original 6cyl to a correct V8 motor and you will definitely increase it's resale value. Practically everyone would want that change. But it does eliminate the unique character of driving a slow 3-speed column shift down the boulevard that was unique to older days. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| We all know pure stock is worth the most. Not until you get into like pro touring/highly morning fire do you get the money back.
There are special classes for restored vs not restored.
I like the creature modern comforts and safety. These 57 seats suck, 300c seats aren't bad and I might try to upgrade the padding a lot.
I also like the customs of the 60-70's of these cars. I know you guys freak out when its not 100% stock but it's not your car and it would be a pretty boring world if all cars and to be stock... I'm gonna customize pretty heavy on my next build and it'll ruffle feathers... My next car build is my 58 Plymouth, 58 regal lancer or my dads 57 300c |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I love most of the Forward Look cars, but have never been the
type who is brand-loyal retarded, nor am do I limit my interest to
just fin era cars. After AFG, I bought myself a Model T Truck and
enjoy it more than any FL car I have owned. It is slow and about
as comfortable a driver as wearing burlap skivvies, but speed and
comfort have always been distant priorities behind character and
charm. Parts are cheap and easily available, but more importantly
(to me) is the interaction this thing brings with so many people
wherever I go. It is unlike anything one will experience with newer
old cars. For me, this is where I like my old car hobby to reside.
It is not about the dollar value or numbers matching or even the
vehicle. It is about the way it really makes people's day to see it
and they often have great family stories to share, or I get invites
to come see the old junk they have in their barns. I never got that
driving fin-era cars of any make. And best of all, I keep it in nice,
but unrestored condition, and nobody would want to see it any other
way. It is that charm and character that puts a smile on their faces.
 (26 731 2016 aug 01.jpg)
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 26 731 2016 aug 01.jpg (127KB - 127 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 406
Location: Hilltown, PA | Doctor DeSoto - 2017-12-18 9:52 PM
I love most of the Forward Look cars, but have never been the
type who is brand-loyal retarded, nor am do I limit my interest to
just fin era cars. After AFG, I bought myself a Model T Truck and
enjoy it more than any FL car I have owned. It is slow and about
as comfortable a driver as wearing burlap skivvies, but speed and
comfort have always been distant priorities behind character and
charm. Parts are cheap and easily available, but more importantly
(to me) is the interaction this thing brings with so many people
wherever I go. It is unlike anything one will experience with newer
old cars. For me, this is where I like my old car hobby to reside.
It is not about the dollar value or numbers matching or even the
vehicle. It is about the way it really makes people's day to see it
and they often have great family stories to share, or I get invites
to come see the old junk they have in their barns. I never got that
driving fin-era cars of any make. And best of all, I keep it in nice,
but unrestored condition, and nobody would want to see it any other
way. It is that charm and character that puts a smile on their faces.
In a lot of ways this sums up my feelings. I enjoy so many different kinds of cars and trucks that most of my friends are often surprised at what I'll stop to admire.
One of the things I love about the Desoto is what it does for other people - the smiles and thumbs up all reflect a positive feeling for them.
I also enjoy the people - the conversations about cars folks used to have, or the neighbor had, or any of the fond memories people want to share.
I'm hoping that's what I find in the spring . . . .
Gregg |
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Expert
Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 531
Location: Park Hills, KY | I agree about driving vs trailer queen. I may be one of the only persons on here who can’t stand “the scene”. I LOVE all old cars in many makes for many reasons. But I despise having to be a walking encyclopedia for those not in the know. “those 60 Chrysler hemis are powerful” “that’s not a 383”, etc... I have had so many “car guys” accost me with their “knowledge” about my car, that I avoid taking it anywhere there is a gathering of cars. I simply can’t take the annoyance. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Perzackly .... Sure, there are cool car guys who "get it". But by-and-
large, most car guys are macho chest beaters and old dudes pretending
to still be in high school, or basic misinformed know-it-alls.
If we could just get all the cool guys in one area and move out all the
assclowns, "the scene" could be cool. But that will never happen. Just
avoid the whole gig and hope to meet the occasional "civilian" with a
great story of their Aunt's car, or just put smiles on those who see the
car as you motor about.
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Veteran
Posts: 269
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia | I'm sorry some people feel that way about our old car hobby.99% of people just don't know about our cars or have never seen one . As we work on our Desotos,searching for parts ect. we all become reluctent "experts" on our year (59) Desotos.I've had people me that Desotos are a model of the Dodge line.One woman said "I really love your Edsel!".WE all run into people like this.I do my best to tell them the facts of our cars. We have to be stewards of a piece of American history, the fins pointing to the exciting jet age.It was a time when we were on top of the world and full of future promise.Perhaps those who "Sour up"should go home, sell their cars,turn off the lights, get a dozen cats and watch reruns of Walker,Texas Ranger.Wille Nelson said "there's a p***k in every rosegarden",but there are more good meaning people in the "Scene" than bad .Perhaps the Sour ones are the real annoyance ? LOVE THOSE FINS!---  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 537
Location: Upstate NY | As I said in another post, I really enjoyed being around the NDC old timers because they would take an old 52-3-4 power master and fix it up without spending a fortune but loved their cars. They thought people were crazy to spend small fortunes doing some of the crazy stuff we all do now to make our cars "perfect". They would buff their cars and clean them to look as good as they could picking up parts on the Desoto Adventurer Magazine or at Hershey (no internet) . If you think about it, it is a little crazy. The fun is gone. You better love what you are doing because most people don't give 3 ***** about FL cars. Just saying. |
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Basically the secret is to have fun doing your thing and don't give a s__t about what anyone thinks, as long as no one is hurt it's the healthy approach to life imo. |
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | So can any of you give some advice about the best polish to use on the mentioned ground mirrors with the least amount of work?
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal |  How about putting a picture of someone else's underside there, under the glass to make it look like a mirror reflection? Maybe throw in a couple of smurfs or gnomes while you are at it? |
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Mint Condition Restorations
