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1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production
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58 300D
Posted 2017-12-02 1:48 PM (#553549)
Subject: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production


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Location: Wichita, Kansas
Anyone know how man 58 FF coupes were made? I've heard two different figures, so thought it ask the experts. I can say one thing, no matter how many were made they are almost non existent today.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-02 2:30 PM (#553550 - in reply to #553549)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9604
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Location: So. Cal
Fireflite coupes: 3284
Firedome coupes: 4325
Firesweep coupes: 5635

They weren't that rare when they were made, but now is another story.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-12-02 2:34 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-12-03 2:07 AM (#553593 - in reply to #553550)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Parts Unknown
I find the survival rates of the different models to be fascinating.

Just on numbers alone, Fireflite production was 42% of Firesweep
production (coupes), yet inmy own, very UNscientific observations,
I would say 10-20 Firesweep coupes survive for every Fireflite coupe
I have ever seen, ... maybe more ! Numbers are similar for convertibles,
with a much higher visibility/documentation of surviving cars.

Firedomes, while much more similar to Fireflites, also survive in
higher numbers. Never have been able to make sense of why Fireflites
seem to have an abnormally high attrition rate compared to their
brothers.
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58 300D
Posted 2017-12-03 1:24 PM (#553607 - in reply to #553549)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production


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Location: Wichita, Kansas
Yep 3284 is the number I have read, but I've heard otherwise too. Thank you for the info. I will say, if you do a Google image search for 58 FF coupes, there is maybe one or two, the rest are Domes or Sweeps. This leads me to believe there are almost none out there, and those that are are very camera shy. I can guarantee you this, yesterday I added to the small number of known coupes. More info to come..,

Edited by 58 300D 2017-12-03 1:25 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-12-03 2:27 PM (#553610 - in reply to #553607)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Parts Unknown
I can think of two red/white examples, one with the Spring Special
side inserts and deck lid ribs ... it was back east ... Virginia ? The
other lives in Vancouver Island. There is a baby blue one with dark
blue sweep and roof. It was rough, last time I knew anything about
it. There is a mustard yellow and white one out there somewhere.
And I seem to recall a restored all white example. All these were
still in the U.S. ... OK, Vancouver Island isn't quite the U.S., but the
car shows up around the NW U.S. at shows. Not sure what the Swedes
have taken hostage, but no doubt they have captured a few.

I parted a very rusty red-white example that, in hindsight, was well
within the bounds of restoring by today's standards. I still have the
body/VIN tags for that one, in case anyone wants to build a Fireflite
coupe up from parts. But be warned, it was a LOADED car and the
parts required to make it match would be some serious work to round
up.
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jpmopar
Posted 2017-12-03 4:57 PM (#553621 - in reply to #553610)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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I thought '58 Fireflite Coupes were fairly common. I found one in a barn two months ago just thirty miles from my house...;)



(58FF.jpg)



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hemidave
Posted 2017-12-03 5:01 PM (#553622 - in reply to #553621)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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jpmopar - 2017-12-03 4:57 PM

I thought '58 Fireflite Coupes were fairly common. I found one in a barn two months ago just thirty miles from my house...;)


Nice find Jim ! It's great that it was close to you.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-12-03 5:41 PM (#553624 - in reply to #553622)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Parts Unknown
Jim might be on to something here ....

You know how some times the hardest things to see are those
right under your nose ? Maybe that is it. These 58 Fireflite coupes
are so common, we just don't notice them amongst all the KIA's
and Hyundai's ???
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imopar380
Posted 2017-12-03 5:42 PM (#553625 - in reply to #553622)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada
This is the one on Vancouver Island, belongs to a friend of mine. 2 weeks ago the parking brake let go and it rolled backwards down his very steep driveway...... Insurance is working with him on it.



(Reddrockett.JPG)



(reddrocket2.JPG)



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Attachments Reddrockett.JPG (144KB - 111 downloads)
Attachments reddrocket2.JPG (124KB - 116 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-03 6:42 PM (#553628 - in reply to #553549)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Ouch. Looks like there is very little damage beyond the rear bumper though. I can't say the same for the brick pillar. The E-brakes on all my other cars are very reliable and I trust them, but the '58 DeSoto brake will release if you sneeze on it. So I always back it up with a tire chock.
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imopar380
Posted 2017-12-03 8:41 PM (#553635 - in reply to #553628)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada
Powerflite - 2017-12-03 3:42 PM

Ouch. Looks like there is very little damage beyond the rear bumper though. I can't say the same for the brick pillar. The E-brakes on all my other cars are very reliable and I trust them, but the '58 DeSoto brake will release if you sneeze on it. So I always back it up with a tire chock.

The gas tank is ruined, and the rear frame rails are a little bent apparently. The deck lid is also jammed shut. The owner kept a sense of humour about it all, here's a story he wrote for our local WPC newsletter -

"Last Saturday our Desoto decided to be the First driverless car on the street. Unfortunately not all the
cameras and sensors were in full operation. The brick lamp post at the bottom of the driveway was the
first to notice the driverless car, and bravely tried in vain to stop the two tons of hurtling steel. The light
fixture on top of the post was not as brave and jumped to safety unharmed. The Red Rockett was not
finished with the brick lamp post and ran it to the ground. The lamp post stopped the Desoto from
leaving the yard by standing up on the retaining wall and forcing the driver less car to a horrific grinding
halt. Another six feet to go before the tires hit the road. The rear wheels were not resting on anything,
so I crawled under and smashed out two retaining wall bricks and the rear settled down on the wall. My
attempt to drive off the post failed as the tires were not fully touching the top surface of said wall. With
the help of two neighbours and a rope we towed the car up the driveway off the post.. Not a pleasant
sound. We lowered the car down the driveway onto some big blocks, undid the rope and I drove the
Desoto into its garage. Gas was dripping so the 14 gallons of fuel was dumped into my truck. Damage =
20 gallon tank is now 14 gallons, rear bumper is toast, rear connecting frame rail is bent, panel below
trunk lid pushed in, trunk lid bowed up and will not open, body panels around lid look to be sprung and
other miscellaneous scrapes and bruises. More Damage, to me, I was more than upset. I still think it
was a bad dream, but it was real. Luckily no one was hurt."
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Chrycoman
Posted 2017-12-04 2:12 AM (#553659 - in reply to #553550)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Powerflite - 2017-12-02 2:30 PM

Fireflite coupes: 3284
Firedome coupes: 4325
Firesweep coupes: 5635

They weren't that rare when they were made, but now is another story.



The Firedome number, 4,325, should be 4,080 hardtop coupes built at DeSoto's Wyoming Avenue plant and 245 at Windsor, Ontario.

In addition to the above, 350 Adventurer hardtop coupes were built at Wyoming Avenue.

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57burb
Posted 2017-12-04 6:04 PM (#553702 - in reply to #553659)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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That red/white Fireflite is a beauty. I hate to see it was damaged, but it looks like a straightforward repair.

If you're interested, I have a nice trunk lid (in TX). I also have a solid gas tank from a '57 NYer, but it is slightly crushed in and I'm not sure how it would be repaired. A rear tire blew, and the car dropped onto a pair of springs I had underneath it. So you can picture what that dent looks like.
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59 explorer
Posted 2017-12-04 7:20 PM (#553707 - in reply to #553549)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production


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Back to the original question

Desoto for 1956 and 1957 counted the Adventurers within the Fireflite totals. The Adventurer totals should be subtracted from the FF total. I believe the 57's were actually coded as a subseries to the FF with a -A

For 1959 Desoto established specific VIN prefix codes for each series eg M412 FS Detroit, M414 FS LA; M431 FD Jefferson, M439 FD Windsor, M451 FF Jefferson, M491 Adventurer Jefferson, M471 Jefferson (FF) SW and M472 Dodge Main (FS) SW. Very easy to locate the production figures....

1958 was a transition year, they used LS- x (series)- y (plants other than Detroit) The question-was the Adventurer production included within the FF production or was it somehow coded to separate it?
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Chrycoman
Posted 2017-12-04 10:44 PM (#553717 - in reply to #553549)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Vancouver, BC

I have DeSoto production figures from Chrysler Historical for 1957, 1958 and 1959. In all three years they present the Adventurer figures separate from the Fireflite. And they list Canadian production for 1958 and 1959, although it is noted that they are included with the Firedome figures. Thus the Firedome number, 4,325, was broken down to 4,080 hardtop coupes built in Detroit and 245 in Windsor.

No DeSotos were built in Canada for the 1957 model year (Note : that is 1957 MODEL year, not calendar year).

The 1958 Adventurer used the same serial number prefix as the Fireflite, LS3-, and thus Adventurer production is included with Fireflite serial numbers. The Adventurer models, though, were given unique body numbers, which appear on the IBM cards and the body tag, and thus were counted separately on body style reports.

For the 1959 serial numbers, the M412 FS Detroit is actually Dodge Main, same as the M472 FS wagon. The "2" is for the Dodge Main, or Hamtramck, plant.

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-12-05 2:03 AM (#553723 - in reply to #553717)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Parts Unknown
Chrycoman - 2017-12-05 7:44 PM

The 1958 Adventurer used the same serial number prefix as the Fireflite, LS3-, and thus Adventurer production is included with Fireflite serial numbers. The Adventurer models, though, were given unique body numbers, which appear on the IBM cards and the body tag, and thus were counted separately on body style reports.


===================================

Help me have clarity here ....

in 1958, commonly passed around production numbers for Adventurer coupes
and convertibles are 350 and 82, respectively.

For the same year, commonly passed around production numbers for Fireflite
coupes and convertibles are 3284 and 474, respectively.

Are these numbers overlapping, and the Adventurer numbers part of the
Fireflite numbers ? Or to put it a different way, should Adventurer numbers
be subtracted from the Fireflite numbers, making Fireflite numbers actually
2934 coupes and 392 convertibles ???

Surviving numbers for the Fireflites just do not make sense, when compared
to the other models. If production numbers were overlapping, it would at least
help explain part of why so few Fireflites survive. ??
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Chrycoman
Posted 2017-12-05 5:59 AM (#553724 - in reply to #553549)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Vancouver, BC
According to information supplied by Chrysler Historical Services, 1958 DeSoto Fireflite production was (and Adventurer production is NOT included) :

2 door Hardtop - 3,284
4 door Sedan - 4,192
4 door Hardtop - 3,243
Convertible - 474
Wagon - 2 seat - 318
Wagon - 3 seat - 609
TOTAL - 12,120

For the Adventurer-
2 door Hardtop - 350
Convertible - 82
TOTAL - 432

Grand Total LS3 models : 12,552

Total of Fireflite/Adventurer 2 door Hardtops - 3,634
Total of Fireflite/Adventurer Convertibles - 556

Fireflite and Adventurer models were built only the DeSoto assembly plant, 6000 Wyoming Avenue, on the west side of Detroit. Published serial number sequence for the 1958 S3 models (Branham Automobile Reference Book, 1961 edition) included Fireflite and Adventurer :
Beginning - LS3-1001
Ending - LS3-13552
Total - 12,552

Production of US-built 1958 Firedome (LS2) models came to 16,409 while Firesweep V8 (LS1) production (built in US only) came to 19,414 (1,527 in Los Angeles and 17,887 at Hamtramck (Dodge Main)). So the LS3 models (Fireflite and Adventurer) were the lowest production of the 1958 models.

DeSoto also supposedly built a 6 cylinder taxi in 1958, model LS1T. But I have never seen any production figures or serial numbers for them - supposedly started at LS1T-1001. 1957 and 1958 DeSoto taxis were just basic 4 door Firesweep 4 door sedan with a 230-cid flathead six. 139 were built in 1957.

Hope this helps sort things out.

Edited by Chrycoman 2017-12-05 6:00 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-12-05 10:32 AM (#553732 - in reply to #553724)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Parts Unknown
Thanks, Bill. Puts it in perfectly plain language. That is what
I was looking for.

Now, if you could just explain why the survival ratio is so low
for Fireflites versus the other models ....
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58 300D
Posted 2017-12-05 10:48 AM (#553734 - in reply to #553724)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production


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Location: Wichita, Kansas
Awesome information, Bill. Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. Like you, Doc, I am baffled why there only seems to be 15 surviving FF coupes. (OK, 15 is a random number to represent an obscenely low survival number). If someone said 'I have to have one' it would be a major pain to try to find one actually for sale. Thanks again! Matt.
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spinout
Posted 2017-12-05 12:54 PM (#553744 - in reply to #553610)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland
Doctor DeSoto - 2017-12-03 11:27 PM
Not sure what the Swedes have taken hostage, but no doubt they have captured a few.


Found TEN (10) 2drs from this Swedish SITE. Interesting enough, they too have more Sweep coupes
than FFs.

Have not seen any '58 FF coupes in Finland. In 1989 or 90, some Finn located in California offered me a red/white
rust-free project, but I rejected it, because it had an extensive collision damage in the front end. I was 24 or 25 and
was looking for the first project to grease hands. Was scared if it would have exceeded my skills & available funds..

Edited by spinout 2017-12-05 2:05 PM
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57burb
Posted 2017-12-05 1:59 PM (#553748 - in reply to #553724)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Chrycoman - 2017-12-05 4:59 AM

DeSoto also supposedly built a 6 cylinder taxi in 1958, model LS1T. But I have never seen any production figures or serial numbers for them - supposedly started at LS1T-1001. 1957 and 1958 DeSoto taxis were just basic 4 door Firesweep 4 door sedan with a 230-cid flathead six. 139 were built in 1957.


Okay, not the most "exciting" of the FL cars. But is there a picture of one of these in existence?! I have never heard of ANY Desoto car having been built with a six after 1954.
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spinout
Posted 2017-12-05 2:18 PM (#553751 - in reply to #553748)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland
57burb - 2017-12-05 10:59 PM
I have never heard of ANY Desoto car having been built with a six after 1954.


I have seen in a real life the DeSoto with a Six engine built after 1954... a Diplomat. Ok, it was Plymouth-based thru 1959 and Dart-based in '60-61, but
it has DESOTO letters front & back plus registration papers says DeSoto.
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58 300D
Posted 2017-12-05 3:30 PM (#553753 - in reply to #553744)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production


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Wow, spinout, that doesn't surprise me one bit that most are in Sweden! At least they are taking fine care of them. Thanks for posting that album!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-12-06 12:07 AM (#553772 - in reply to #553744)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSoto FireFlite coupe production



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Location: Parts Unknown
spinout - 2017-12-06 9:54 AM

Doctor DeSoto - 2017-12-03 11:27 PM
Not sure what the Swedes have taken hostage, but no doubt they have captured a few.


Found TEN (10) 2drs from this Swedish SITE.
Interesting enough, they too have more Sweep coupes than FFs.


=================================

Logic would tell us that if 42% more Sweep coupes were built
than Fireflites, we might expect somewhere around 42% more
Sweep coupes to be surviving, or a little less than a 2-to-1 ratio.
But it just did not work out that way. Been scratching my bean
about this for years !
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