The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags
Jump to page : 1 2
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Fender/VIN Tag and Broadcast Sheet DecodingMessage format
 
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-17 10:38 AM (#552525)
Subject: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
? When did production start on the 59s? How many were made?

What options did this have from the factory?
Does anybody know the Dealer, number 56025?

Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-11-17 10:48 AM




(wt59dodge.jpg)



(wt59dodgetag.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments wt59dodge.jpg (233KB - 68 downloads)
Attachments wt59dodgetag.jpg (248KB - 60 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-17 12:56 PM (#552535 - in reply to #552525)
Subject: RE: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 3273
200010001001002525
Location: Connecticut

Detroit-build Custom Royal 4dr sedan. All white, with black and white swivel seats. Torqueflite, with option groups 3, 4 and 7. Hood ornament, deluxe steering wheel, roof mldgs. Sold in the Dallas region. Early car, probably on the lot on the first day of sales, which was around Oct 10, 1958.

Ron

Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-17 2:17 PM (#552538 - in reply to #552535)
Subject: RE: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Ron, Thanks for the info. I am confused about the seats. The interior is blue, including the dash and dash pad.

How do you know it was in the Dallas region?

Edited by 58DeSoDodge59 2017-11-17 2:18 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-17 6:53 PM (#552552 - in reply to #552538)
Subject: RE: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 3273
200010001001002525
Location: Connecticut

Yeah, my bad. S75 is blue. S78 is black/white.

Region 63 is the Dallas region.

Ron



Edited by ronbo97 2017-11-17 6:54 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-17 10:23 PM (#552572 - in reply to #552552)
Subject: RE: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Is there a map or a list of the Regions somewhere?
FCA did not know the dealer of code 56025. Is there a way to find this information?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-19 6:33 PM (#552720 - in reply to #552525)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC
M352 101713
M - 1959
3 - Custom Royal
2 - Hamtramck assembly plant
101713 - Sequential production number

1,713rd 1959 Custom Royal built at Hamtramck


Options as per IBM card -

293 - Torqueflite
313 - Accessory Group
314 - Accessory Group
317 - Accessory Group
343 - Heater
361 - Swivel seats
408 - Hood ornament
429 - Roof moulding
466 - Solex glass
471 - Padded deluxe steering wheel
511 - Wheel covers
531 - Axle ratio
581 -
593 - 13 - Tires - 8.00x14", 4-ply, whitewalls
625 - Route - Truck

Scheduled to be built on September 26, 1958
Shipped on September 24, 1958 - car was actually built sometime before September 24

Body - 353
3 - Dodge
5 - Custom Royal
3 - 4 door sedan

6,458 1959 Dodge Custom Royal 4 door sedans were built in the U.S.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-19 8:31 PM (#552726 - in reply to #552720)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Bill, Thanks for the info. Neither you nor Ron said anything about Factory A/C.
This car does have factory A/C.
Where would it be noted on the IBM card?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-19 11:18 PM (#552737 - in reply to #552726)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-11-19 8:31 PM

Bill, Thanks for the info. Neither you nor Ron said anything about Factory A/C.
This car does have factory A/C.
Where would it be noted on the IBM card?


Card column 34 is A/C and heater. The car is coded 343 as Bill said. Just need to be sure what 343 means and to do that you need the sales codes or column legend for 59 Dodge. I don't have that info.

A copy of a 59 Dodge Broadcast Sheet is another tool to help decode things. Neil and I made up a handwritten copy which I will post.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-19 11:23 PM (#552738 - in reply to #552737)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
Here it is:

Greg



(image.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments image.jpg (222KB - 80 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-20 5:18 AM (#552746 - in reply to #552525)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC

The list I have for sales codes has the heating and AC under "34-". The codes I have are -
341 - A/C for V8 models (with heater/defroster)
342 - A/C for V8 Suburbans (dual A/C with heater/defroster)
345 - Heater with defroster (Do not order with A/C)
347 - Heater - gas fired

And no 343. Dodge probably had some unique heater A/C options, one of which was coded 343.

On your IBM card, the 343 code appears twice. In column "34" there is a punch for the 3.

And on the top row of the card, over on the right side, there is a "3" above the last column and a "3" three squares to the left. You can see the box under that 3 has the number "34". So that is the second entry for the "343" sales code. There is something printed in the box below the "34" but I cannot make it out. A few times I have looked at the box it looks like the word "heater" and there is something before that word. Which is why I put just "Heater" for 343 as I could only see that word on the card and had no other information.




Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-20 12:31 PM (#552774 - in reply to #552746)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Greg, Thanks for posting the hand written Broadcast sheet. That helps in trying to read some of these categories.
Bill, That is weird, that it does not show 343. Is defroster the same as rear defogger? I wonder if 343 is A/C for
V8 models (without Defroster), because this car does not have a rear defogger?


Okay, here is another curve ball for ya. This car has, what looks like, factory installed Auto Pilot. Where would
this be noted on the IBM card?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 4:20 PM (#552783 - in reply to #552774)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
Bill, I think you will find that the"something" in front of the word "heater" is A/C &.

Kurt, it certainly shows 343 in the correct places. We just can't prove what 343 means. I think some day we will find that it means front A/C with heater and defroster. Defroster is hot air to the windshield. The rear defogger would be coded separately in its own card column.

The reason auto pilot is not shown on the punch card is because it is too early a card. It doesn't show on my broadcast sheet either for the same reason. If I can read the dates they both look to be revisions June 58 and the autopilot wasn't available for Dodge in June or simply the paperwork was late! If you could find the broadcast sheet for the car it would likely have auto pilot pencilled on it or maybe even a later revision date.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 4:23 PM (#552784 - in reply to #552783)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
A rear defogger would show as 398 in card column 39.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-20 5:03 PM (#552788 - in reply to #552783)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC
LD3 Greg - 2017-11-20 4:20 PM

Bill, I think you will find that the"something" in front of the word "heater" is A/C &.

Kurt, it certainly shows 343 in the correct places. We just can't prove what 343 means. I think some day we will find that it means front A/C with heater and defroster. Defroster is hot air to the windshield. The rear defogger would be coded separately in its own card column.

The reason auto pilot is not shown on the punch card is because it is too early a card. It doesn't show on my broadcast sheet either for the same reason. If I can read the dates they both look to be revisions June 58 and the autopilot wasn't available for Dodge in June or simply the paperwork was late! If you could find the broadcast sheet for the car it would likely have auto pilot pencilled on it or maybe even a later revision date.

Greg


Thanks, Greg! Good eye sight.

Auto-Pilot was code 397. Found that one on a 1959 Imperial option list. On the IBM card, the code for 397 would have the 7 punched out on column 39. But there is no hole in column 39. However, if you look at the boxes along the row of holes for the number "1", there is a box for "397". (First box on the left is "353".) The descriptor for the box is "Speed Warn". If the "Speed Warn" was installed there would be a number "7" in the box right above "397".

Also 398 for rear window defogger and 391 for Automatic beam changer.

Imperial codes 341, 342, 345, and 347 are the same as on the Dodge codes.



Edited by Chrycoman 2017-11-20 6:09 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 10:21 PM (#552807 - in reply to #552535)
Subject: RE: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
ronbo97 - 2017-11-17 12:56 PM

Detroit-build Custom Royal 4dr sedan. All white, with black and white swivel seats. Torqueflite, with option groups 3, 4 and 7. Hood ornament, deluxe steering wheel, roof mldgs. Sold in the Dallas region. Early car, probably on the lot on the first day of sales, which was around Oct 10, 1958.

Ron



Ron, do you have any body plate or broadcast sheet examples for 59 Dodges with A/C? What about auto pilot?

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-20 10:32 PM (#552810 - in reply to #552788)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Greg, I looked for the broadcast sheet on top of the glove box, but it was not there. The carpet is
missing and rear deck does not have anything on it, so it is not in those places neither.

Here is some info I found in the WPC club magazine. This is what is in each Accessory group.



(wpc2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments wpc2.jpg (206KB - 70 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 10:42 PM (#552811 - in reply to #552810)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-11-20 10:32 PM

Greg, I looked for the broadcast sheet on top of the glove box, but it was not there. The carpet is
missing and rear deck does not have anything on it, so it is not in those places neither.

Here is some info I found in the WPC club magazine. This is what is in each Accessory group.


Kurt, that is good info thanks. I had no idea what the 59 Dodge Accessory groups contained!

Here is one of the better Broadcast Sheets that we had to do our work. Neil sent me this one, D500 Convert. I just thought you might like an original for your notes.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 10:45 PM (#552812 - in reply to #552811)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
I didn't reduce the size quite enough! Try this.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 10:49 PM (#552813 - in reply to #552811)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
Try again a little smaller! This a PITA!



(image.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments image.jpg (230KB - 61 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-20 10:52 PM (#552814 - in reply to #552807)
Subject: RE: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 3273
200010001001002525
Location: Connecticut

LD3 Greg - 2017-11-20 10:21 PM Ron, do you have any body plate or broadcast sheet examples for 59 Dodges with A/C? What about auto pilot? Greg

Negative on the A/C. By auto-pilot, do you mean speed minder ? I don't think there was an auto-pilot option available for 59 Dodges.

Ron

Top of the page Bottom of the page
ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-20 10:56 PM (#552815 - in reply to #552813)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 3273
200010001001002525
Location: Connecticut

Greg -

Just checked my 59 Dodge convertible registry. I have that white convertible listed. Last owner I have was a Gary Quinn of Kincardine, Ont.

Ron

Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 11:05 PM (#552817 - in reply to #552815)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
ronbo97 - 2017-11-20 10:56 PM

Greg -

Just checked my 59 Dodge convertible registry. I have that white convertible listed. Last owner I have was a Gary Quinn of Kincardine, Ont.

Ron



Oh, good, that is why I have that Broadcast sheet copy. I know Gary. I bought my 300C from him!!!

Small World!
Thanks!
Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 11:28 PM (#552821 - in reply to #552817)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
On second thought, he didn't have that convert when I bought my C. I must have paid him too much!! Neil did send me that sheet.

Speed Minder is the little dial on the right side of the speedo, set the speed and when you exceed that speed it flashes the handbrake warning light. I mean auto pilot. Not too long ago someone posted pics of it on a 59 Dodge here on this forum. I've seen another one as well. Maybe Kurt would post some pics of his.

Bill,the subject car is coded for accessory group 7 which includes the Speed Minder. That is why the punch card is punched for 7. The actual Dodge code for Auto Pilot is maybe still unknown.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-20 11:29 PM (#552822 - in reply to #552817)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 3273
200010001001002525
Location: Connecticut

Does he still have the convertible ?

Ron

Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-20 11:45 PM (#552823 - in reply to #552822)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
ronbo97 - 2017-11-20 11:29 PM

Does he still have the convertible ?

Ron



I don't know. I haven't talked to him in a bunch of years. Send me his email address and I will contact him.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-21 12:03 AM (#552825 - in reply to #552823)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful




(autopilot.jpg)



(speedminder.jpg)



(stuffunderhood.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments autopilot.jpg (218KB - 52 downloads)
Attachments speedminder.jpg (225KB - 57 downloads)
Attachments stuffunderhood.jpg (225KB - 74 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-21 12:29 AM (#552828 - in reply to #552825)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
Great! Here we go! The factory auto pilot is controlled by the knob on the steering column. It is missing the center button which is the on-off button switch. The underhood hardware is bang-on factory original. The knob on the far right side of the speedo face is the Speed Minder. Totally separate from the auto pilot.

So, to recap, we have a car that is coded for accessory group 7 which includes the Speed Minder as well as a car with factory Auto Pilot which seems to have no order code for it at all. Without a code it didn't get invoiced. The factory didn't give stuff away for free! We are missing paperwork!

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-21 7:49 AM (#552834 - in reply to #552828)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 3273
200010001001002525
Location: Connecticut

WOW ! Never seen a 59 Dodge with AutoPilot. I just checked the options list in the Ross Roy Data Book and it's not even listed there. Still have to go thru the Technical Service Bulletins, as it may have been added after the RR was printed.

Greg - I don't have his email address, unfortunately.

Ron

Top of the page Bottom of the page
wizard
Posted 2017-11-21 8:29 AM (#552837 - in reply to #552525)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 11909
500050001000500100100100100
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
Double wow, I've never saw one either - this is rare if it's original!!!

According to what I know, the AutoPilot was only offered as a dealer mounted option on the Dodges.
That's a lot of work to install that option, especially with the steering column mounted Control unit.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-21 7:53 PM (#552873 - in reply to #552837)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 3273
200010001001002525
Location: Connecticut

This is really curious. Just looked in the parts book. Group 14-2-0. Indicates that AutoPilot was only available for Chrysler/Imperial. Page is dated Feb 15, 1960, superceding Mar 20, 1959. So this may have been dealer-created.

Ron

Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-21 10:11 PM (#552895 - in reply to #552873)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
I have never seen any literature to indicate the factory installed auto pilot in 58 or 59 Dodges. I found one on a junkyard 58 Dodge that I removed and ultimately installed it in my Regal. Wizard is right. It is a very comprehensive job!!

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-22 1:29 AM (#552904 - in reply to #552525)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC

I've got the Canadian 1959 parts catalogue, WM4420, printed February, 1960. It lists the Auto Pilot in section 14-02-0 and as being available on DeSoto (except Firesweep), Chrysler (all models) and Imperial. The Chrysler C1 Windsor is listed in section 19-14-1 (Steering Gear Column Jacket) as being available only in the U.S. with Auto Pilot. Nothing under Dodge.

The car was built in September, 1958. We have been considering the dealer installed the Auto Pilot, but given the car is now 58 years older, there is great possibility that someone in the that 58 year stretch made a switch. That's not uncommon to find engines and transmissions replaced/updated along with a number of other changes, including installing AutoPilot in a car that did not come from the factory with it.



Top of the page Bottom of the page
CustomRoyal
Posted 2017-11-22 8:13 AM (#552914 - in reply to #552904)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Veteran

Posts: 297
100100252525
Codes 341 air conditioning (incl.fresh air heater only)
342 air conditioning (dual)
343 air conditioning w/acc. group
344 air conditioning dual w/acc. group
as written in the factory order sheets for 59 desoto
With acc group price is cheaper. They are crediting you for the heater you are getting in that accessory group.

I own a loaded 59 Dodge with a/c also code 343 on build sheet

Jim

Edited by CustomRoyal 2017-11-22 8:33 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-22 10:48 AM (#552922 - in reply to #552914)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Jim, Thanks for the information. That works for me.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-26 1:11 PM (#553177 - in reply to #552922)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Sorry guys, I thought that I had already looked for the broadcast sheet, but I went out there and
checked the top of the glovebox, and there it was. I also removed the two screws in the cover plate
of the Auto Pilot, to see if the column was drilled. That would have told us if it was an after thought.
But the column was made that way.



(white59ibm (2).jpg)



(autopilothole.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments white59ibm (2).jpg (237KB - 63 downloads)
Attachments autopilothole.jpg (240KB - 73 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-26 1:39 PM (#553180 - in reply to #553177)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
The hole in the column is die stamped out from the factory. Not drilled,cut or nimbled out like an aftermarket one would be. The Chrysler/Desoto steering column is about 1 1/2" longer than for a Dodge or Sweep because the frame is that much thicker(deeper). If the steering column was out of a Chrysler it would have to be sawed shorter and welded back together. That will be the only way to tell if it came from a Chrysler.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-26 11:40 PM (#553213 - in reply to #552525)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC

Actually, the reason for the longer steering column in the Saratoga (C2) and New Yorker (C3), but not the Windsor (C1), is that the wheelbase on the C2 and C3 was 126", four inches longer than the C1 (122"). Same goes for the DeSoto - the Firesweep (S1) used the same steering column as the C1 while the Firedome (S2) and Fireflite (S3) used the longer unit. The extra length of the 126" wheelbase was all ahead of the firewall. Thus S2, S3, C2, and C3 models shared the same steering columns. The C1 and S1 non-Auto Pilot columns were shared with Dodge models as all D1, D2, D3, S1, and C1 models were on a 122" wheelbase.

Looking at the steering gear tube & worm :
1829 148 - w/o power steering - D1, D2, D3, S1, C1
1829 150 - w/o power steering - S2, C2

The steering column jacket -
with Auto Pilot :
1943 792 - w/o power steering, w/ Torqueflite, w/ Auto Pilot - C1
1943 789 - w/ power steering, w/ Torqueflite, w/ Auto Pilot - C1
1943 790 - w/ power steering, w/ Torqueflite, w/ Auto Pilot - S2, S3, C2, C3

without Auto Pilot :
1731 115 - w/o power steering, w/ Torqueflite, w/o Auto Pilot - P1, P2, E1, E2, D1, D2, D3, S1, C1
1850 543 - w/ power steering, w/ Torqueflite, w/o Auto Pilot - P1, P2, E1, E2, D1, D2, D3, S1, C1
1829 582 - w/o power steering, w/o Auto Pilot - S2, C2
1850 544 - w/ power steering, w/o Auto Pilot - C2, S3, C2, C3

So, if a DeSoto Firesweep or Dodge came with Auto Pilot the Chrysler Windsor steering column would have been used. However, the Canadian Chryco 1959 parts catalogue, WM4480 printed February, 1960 does not mention any parts for Dodge., but does for DeSoto S2, S3, Chrysler C1, C2, C3 and Imperial Y1. I have the September 1958 edition of the US Mopar parts catalog, and has updated pages dated February 15, 1960. It, too, has no information on Dodge Auto Pilot installations.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-27 12:46 AM (#553215 - in reply to #553213)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
All these subject cars shared the same cowl. They all bolted to the frame in the same linear dimension. The deeper framed cars, out of necessity, positioned the identical steering gear a little lower and a little forward of the Dodge framed cars in order to preserve the "same linear geometry above" and the column was precisely 1 5/8" longer.

All you have to do is measure the two column lengths and measure the frame depths at the steering gear and compute the column angle. Pretty basic stuff!! All stuff I did years ago!

So ACTUALLY, it has nothing to do with wheelbase but everything to do with frame depth!!

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-27 1:34 PM (#553237 - in reply to #553213)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
So Bill, are you saying that if the column, part number 1943 789, was used, then it would
not need to be modified?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-28 11:29 PM (#553345 - in reply to #553237)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
This is getting really confusing!
Guys, I really need some help here!
I will post a pic from a new thread here that shows a 57 Chrysler Windsor for sale. Should be a 122" WB right??
It shows a right side upper control arm and mounting bracket which looks to be full size Chrysler. If so, this is certainly not a "Dodge" frame!
If this "shorter WB but nonetheless deep Chrysler" frame was used in Windsors, or C1, the C2 or C3 would also be the same. No need for different part numbers!!
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Greg



(image.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments image.jpg (188KB - 54 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-28 11:35 PM (#553347 - in reply to #553345)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
I should have said no need for different part numbers for the steering column jackets.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-29 3:52 AM (#553352 - in reply to #553237)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC
58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-11-27 1:34 PM

So Bill, are you saying that if the column, part number 1943 789, was used, then it would
not need to be modified?


Yes, the 1943 789 was used on the 122" wheelbase 1959 Chrysler Windsor and thus could be used on the 122" wheelbase 1959 Dodge (and 1959 DeSoto Firesweep).

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-29 4:08 AM (#553353 - in reply to #553345)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC
LD3 Greg - 2017-11-28 11:29 PM

This is getting really confusing!
Guys, I really need some help here!
I will post a pic from a new thread here that shows a 57 Chrysler Windsor for sale. Should be a 122" WB right??
It shows a right side upper control arm and mounting bracket which looks to be full size Chrysler. If so, this is certainly not a "Dodge" frame!
If this "shorter WB but nonetheless deep Chrysler" frame was used in Windsors, or C1, the C2 or C3 would also be the same. No need for different part numbers!!
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Greg


The 1957 Chrysler Windsor was on the 126" wheelbase, not 122". The US-built 1957 Windsor was model C75-1 while he Saratoga was C75-2. In Canada the Windsor was actually a Saratoga with Windsor nameplates and thus model C75-2.

For steering column jackets in 1957 :
w/o power steering and w/o automatic transmission : 1675 747 - P30, P31, D64, D65, D66, D67, D70, D71, D72, S27 (all 118" & 122" wheelbase models)
w/o power steering and w/o automatic transmission : 1675 748 - S25, S26, C75, C76 (all 126" wheelbase models)
w/o power steering and with automatic transmission : 1731 115 - P30, P31, D64, D65, D66, D67, D70, D71, D72, S27 (all 118" & 122" wheelbase models)
w/o power steering and with automatic transmission : 1731 114 - S25, S26, C75, C76 (all 126" wheelbase models)
with power steering and w/o automatic transmission : 1732 632 - P30, P31, D64, D65, D66, D67, D70, D71, D72, S27 (all 118" & 122" wheelbase models)
with power steering and with automatic transmission : 1732 401 - P30, P31, D64, D65, D66, D67, D70, D71, D72, S27 (all 118" & 122" wheelbase models)
with power steering and with automatic transmission : 1732 399 - S25, S26, C75, C76 (all 126" wheelbase models)

The difference between the 118" and 122" wheelbase models is in the floor area ahead of the rear seat. Thus the two are the same ahead of the firewall. The 126" wheelbase added the 4" length ahead of the firewall.




Edited by Chrycoman 2017-11-29 4:29 AM




(1957 Chrysler USA C75-1 Windsor 4dr Sedan 11.jpg)



(1957 Chrysler USA C75-1 Windsor 4dr Sedan 12.jpg)



(1958 Chrysler USA LC1-L Windsor 4dr Sedan 21.jpg)



(1958 Chrysler USA LC1-L Windsor 4dr Sedan 22.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1957 Chrysler USA C75-1 Windsor 4dr Sedan 11.jpg (79KB - 56 downloads)
Attachments 1957 Chrysler USA C75-1 Windsor 4dr Sedan 12.jpg (71KB - 70 downloads)
Attachments 1958 Chrysler USA LC1-L Windsor 4dr Sedan 21.jpg (70KB - 61 downloads)
Attachments 1958 Chrysler USA LC1-L Windsor 4dr Sedan 22.jpg (55KB - 57 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-29 10:13 AM (#553370 - in reply to #553353)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
I did not see any modifications to the steering column. So we know that they used the proper part.
Of course they had to move the Air tank, to install the Auto Pilot. So they replaced the tank with
this fancy one. And they used a crisscross bracket. Is this what they would have used in the Chryslers
and DeSotos ?



(airtankbraket.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments airtankbraket.jpg (226KB - 80 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-29 7:30 PM (#553395 - in reply to #553352)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
Chrycoman - 2017-11-29 3:52 AM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-11-27 1:34 PM

So Bill, are you saying that if the column, part number 1943 789, was used, then it would
not need to be modified?


Yes, the 1943 789 was used on the 122" wheelbase 1959 Chrysler Windsor and thus could be used on the 122" wheelbase 1959 Dodge (and 1959 DeSoto Firesweep).



So the Chrysler Windsor changed to a 122" WB in 59.

Thanks, Biil!
Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-29 7:55 PM (#553397 - in reply to #553370)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-11-29 10:13 AM

I did not see any modifications to the steering column. So we know that they used the proper part.
Of course they had to move the Air tank, to install the Auto Pilot. So they replaced the tank with
this fancy one. And they used a crisscross bracket. Is this what they would have used in the Chryslers
and DeSotos ?


They look close to me but the mounting brackets will be a little different for a Chrysler.



(image.jpg)



(image.jpg)



(image.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments image.jpg (151KB - 57 downloads)
Attachments image.jpg (158KB - 63 downloads)
Attachments image.jpg (208KB - 62 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-29 7:59 PM (#553398 - in reply to #552525)
Subject: RE: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
The first two pics are a 58 Chrysler and the last is my Regal.

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrycoman
Posted 2017-11-29 11:23 PM (#553409 - in reply to #553395)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Expert

Posts: 1755
10005001001002525
Location: Vancouver, BC
LD3 Greg - 2017-11-29 7:30 PM

Chrycoman - 2017-11-29 3:52 AM

58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-11-27 1:34 PM

So Bill, are you saying that if the column, part number 1943 789, was used, then it would
not need to be modified?


Yes, the 1943 789 was used on the 122" wheelbase 1959 Chrysler Windsor and thus could be used on the 122" wheelbase 1959 Dodge (and 1959 DeSoto Firesweep).



So the Chrysler Windsor changed to a 122" WB in 59.

Thanks, Biil!
Greg



The Canadian Windsor changed from a 126" wheelbase to 122" for 1959, but the American Windsor changed for 1958.

The Canadian 1958 Windsor (LC2-M) was really a 126" wheelbase Saratoga with Windsor nameplates and engine. The American 1958 Chrysler Windsor (LC1-L) used the 122 wheelbase.

For 1959 both Canadian and American Windsors (MC1-L) were on the 122" wheelbase while the Saratoga (MC2-M) was on the 126" wheelbase. And the 1959 Saratoga was built in Canada.


In reply #553353 there are two photos Windsor models - the first being the 1957 Windsor (C75-1) on a 126" wheelbase.

The second is an American 1958 Chrysler Windsor (LC1-L). Note the Dodge-style front fenders.

In the information I provided in discussion with 58DeSoDodge59 was only for 1959 models as he has a 1959 Dodge.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
58DeSoDodge59
Posted 2017-11-30 11:59 AM (#553431 - in reply to #553177)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1023
1000
Location: Wild Wonderful
Who are the hand writing experts? What does this say and what does it mean?
I think it says In V out . Below it ?

I think it says install Auto Pilot.



(writings1.jpg)



(writings3.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments writings1.jpg (234KB - 62 downloads)
Attachments writings3.jpg (215KB - 63 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-11-30 11:48 PM (#553468 - in reply to #553431)
Subject: Re: 1959 Dodge IBM cards and Data tags


Expert

Posts: 1691
1000500100252525
Location: Ontario, Canada
58DeSoDodge59 - 2017-11-30 11:59 AM

Who are the hand writing experts? What does this say and what does it mean?
I think it says In V out . Below it ?

I think it says install Auto Pilot. ;)


It says install autopilot at no charge ----- LOL!

BTW, you won't be able to tell if the jacket has been "modified" until it is out of the car and you can examine the inner surface of the jacket tube!

Greg
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1 2
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread



(Delete all cookies set by this site)