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Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto
Moderators: Lancer Mike

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-10-29 11:03 AM (#551271)
Subject: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Last week, we drove the De Soto to Moab, Utah for fall break. It was a great trip! The weather was perfect and Castle Valley, Moab, Arches, and the Canyonlands were spectacular. We started with breakfast in Golden, Colorado and then made the drive to Glenwood Springs. We all went swimming in the hot springs. From there, it was onward to the Red Cliffs Lodge in Castle Valley. We stayed there three nights.

The morning after we arrived at Red Cliffs, I started to put the top down on the De Soto. One of the hydraulic hoses came loose and spilled fluid all over the floor pan under the driver's side rear seat. That took some time to clean up and get the fluid replaced. We saw Arches National Park and the Canyonlands. Unfortunately, the De Soto's rotor broke in the Canyonlands and we had to be towed home. There just were no parts in Moab or the surrounding area. It was a tough end to a great trip, but it all worked out alright.

Below are a few images of the De Soto on the trip.



(01 Golden Colorado 102217.jpg)



(02 Red Cliffs Lodge near Moab Utah 102317.jpg)



(03 Arches National Park 102317.jpg)



(04 Wilson Arch 102517.jpg)



(05 Wilson Arch 102517.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 01 Golden Colorado 102217.jpg (214KB - 256 downloads)
Attachments 02 Red Cliffs Lodge near Moab Utah 102317.jpg (230KB - 257 downloads)
Attachments 03 Arches National Park 102317.jpg (240KB - 269 downloads)
Attachments 04 Wilson Arch 102517.jpg (238KB - 253 downloads)
Attachments 05 Wilson Arch 102517.jpg (245KB - 331 downloads)
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StillOutThere
Posted 2017-10-29 2:29 PM (#551277 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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"What we did on our fall vacation" Great photo ops around Moab. Sorry you had problems but you'll never forget the trip in part bacause of that!
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-10-29 9:56 PM (#551301 - in reply to #551277)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
Thanks, Wayne! Yes, it was one for the books. I am not sure I will ever convince my wife to take a long trip in the De Soto again!
The bad part was that we had to cut the vacation a bit short. We planned to see four corners, Mesa Verde, and the Great Sand Dunes, but did not get that far.
We were going to take the southern route home and stop by Colorado Springs. Well, it was still a great trip right up until the De Soto conked out.
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RICKYMOPAR
Posted 2017-10-30 1:06 PM (#551331 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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WOW.... Great pictures. Did you find the cause for the rotor failure?
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-30 1:28 PM (#551332 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: RE: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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That's awesome! I love that area and going there in an old DeSoto is fabulous! I took my family camping with our teardrop trailer dragging behind our '56 Savoy this summer (the 4th time doing this), but on the way back, one of the freeze plugs rusted through and started leaking. It leaked slow enough that we were able to make it home by stopping, letting it cool, and refilling the coolant every 50 miles or so. Towing both the car and trailer back home is a real pain in the wallet! It was memorable, but still fun. I think I have convinced my family that those kinds of things are all part of the adventure. Now I just need to clean up all the coolant that spewed all over the engine bay.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-30 1:50 PM (#551335 - in reply to #551331)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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RICKYMOPAR - 2017-10-30 1:06 PM
WOW.... Great pictures. Did you find the cause for the rotor failure?


I think the failure source will likely be either very old OE rotor or a new one made in China (hard to avoid these days).

When I bought my 56 Dodge in Sept. 2016, I had it in a shop to try to get it going (after sitting for 25 years (maybe)). They put a new rotor in it with new points during that process. They couldn't get it going because the carb needed rebuilding (and the fuel tank cleaned, etc.).

After I got the carb and the fuel tank done, I tried to get it started. Still no luck. Eventually I decided to check the rotor. It had shattered.

I have a local NOS parts source and was able to get a new NOS rotor. I would run Chinese rotors but always carry a spare (or two) on a trip.

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=63684&...
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-10-30 2:10 PM (#551338 - in reply to #551335)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
I think the points were the big problem on the trip. Everything started great, but later in the trip, before the rotor shattered, I was having trouble starting the car. One day, it just wouldn't start so I filed down the points with a match cover and I was able to get it to work (with the help of Mike, one of the grounds men at the Red Cliffs Lodge - great guy). Foolishly, I thought this would do the trick and get us the rest of the way. When the car wouldn't start at the Needles Visitor Center in Canyonlands, I removed the cap to inspect the points. I must not have placed the cap on correctly (not sure how I did that, since the straps pretty much secure it in place), because the next time I tried to start it, the rotor shattered - game over. Trying to find parts out there was not pretty! Amazingly, my insurance covered to tow to Denver.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-30 2:37 PM (#551341 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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I'm amazed you are still running points! They are a true source of pain. Electronic ignition is the first upgrade I do even before I try to get a motor started for the first time.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-10-30 11:57 PM (#551372 - in reply to #551341)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto


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Mike, thanks for sharing the photos and story. Spectacular country scenes!! We had our chance to visit when the 300 club had a meet a few years ago in Golden Co. As it happened we had to cancel that trip. You showed what we missed! We will have to revisit!

Whenever our (guys) toys/projects fail it seems always to be on a "family" outing!! Kinda hard to keep our toys at the the family forefront when s**t happens!

I finally got my wooden boat in the water and housed it on a boat lift at my dock. We spent a great day on the water and I guided the boat onto the lift while my wife was in the boat helping to center the boat on the lift bunks. I lifted the boat about 18" and the winch broke!! NOT a good idea to drop your wife!! I have a feeling that I will hear about this for quite some time!!

Greg
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-10-31 1:07 PM (#551399 - in reply to #551372)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
Greg, the scenery was astounding! These few images of the De Soto don't do the area justice! Thanks for sharing your story too. It makes me feel a bit better that I am not the only dog in the doghouse! You know, misery loves company!

Nathan, thanks. I have been toying with the idea of a Petronix system. Maybe now is the time to make the jump. I have had years of good operation on points, but that vacation experience was a real stinker!
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DEH
Posted 2017-10-31 1:28 PM (#551401 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Mike, it sounds like just back luck with the distributor/rotor failure. I drove my 57 Dodge for 37 years and over 170,000 miles with the original setup and never once had a failure. I always kept a spare set of points, condenser and rotor in the trunk just in case (which is why I never needed them, of course!). I did finally add a Pertronix setup when the engine was rebuilt 2 years ago and it will be nice not having to set the dwell/gap any longer in that rear-mounted distributor.

Great photos! Let me know the next time you get down to the Colorado Springs area and we can meet up at the Garden of the Gods for a photo opportunity. Not quite as nice as Moab, but still some great scenery.

Don H.
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scooter0910
Posted 2017-10-31 2:09 PM (#551405 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto


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I was returning to SLC from Mesa at the same time, after being with the grandkids for 2 weeks. Close, but not close enough. Darn!
Scott
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firedome
Posted 2017-11-01 2:27 PM (#551455 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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We went to Maob Sept. a year ago when visiting Dear Daughter and her husband in Denver, the 4 of us went and the scenery was indeed amazing, especially to us Easterners! Rented an AirB'nb house on the edge of town for a couple of days. Had some great Mexican food there too. Very much well worth the trip! Glad you & car got back home OK!

We also really liked Grand Junction, we hadn't been there for over 40 yrs. Don't think we could ever live in Greater Denver, way too much congestion, people, and what all goes with that, &c, but GJ was just right and a nice area we were impressed with! Even had fruit orchards nearby, and also not too far from Moab!

Edited by firedome 2017-11-01 2:29 PM
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wizard
Posted 2017-11-01 4:00 PM (#551458 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Thank's for sharing those nice Pictures - fantastic scenery

I (tried to) test a Pertronix system this summer - that went south! The engine ran like crap and died on any vacuum advance.

The test was done with a renovated distributor;

New bushings, good oem double point breaker plate, new rotor (NOS aftermarket), new cap (NOS aftermarket, new vacuum pot (NOS aftermarket) and brand new Pertronix Ignitor 1382.

Test performed with oem ignition coil.

After one hour of trying various troubleshooting and finding everything in perfect condition , I gave up and installed a concenric NOS aftermarket breaker plate and NOS Mopar breaker eoints - the engine ran excellent again. The car has been used for various road trips all the summer and autumn with no problems at all - the ignition is in exactly the same position as when I installed the new breaker Points.

I'll perhaps make Another test with the Pertronix, but I wouldn't trust it for a long road trip without having a spare Dizzy with Points in the trunk.

Google Pertronix and you'll see that half of the users are not very pleased while the other half praise the system.

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Powerflite
Posted 2017-11-01 4:53 PM (#551462 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Sounds like you may have had too much gap on it, or just got unlucky. I've only used Pertronix once when I had a *gasp* VW bug that worked pretty well on it and never failed me. Since then I just use the GM HEI module with a Chrysler electronic distributor. Never had one die on me, out of a dozen cars and hundreds of thousands of combined miles. I have similar issues as you describe when the gap is set too big because the resulting signal is too weak to trigger off of. So I set the gap smaller than recommended to always get a stronger signal. I make it as small as possible without colliding with any of the tabs. But if you try the Pertronix with a dual point distributor, at least go with an Ignitor II which has better electronics similar to the HEI module. For our big block cars, I believe it is No. 91382.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-04 8:39 PM (#551637 - in reply to #551462)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City

These are the images I would rather not post.

This item is the cursed item that scuttled our vacation. It delivered the coupe de grace on what had been, to that point, steadily increasing mechanical problems. Although it may seem like it should be an easy part to replace, finding a rotor in rural Utah is not easy. These items were common as ketchup at one point, but no more. They certainly can be found, but getting the part to rural Utah is another matter. When this broke, I knew it was "game over."





(broken rotor.jpg)



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Attachments broken rotor.jpg (229KB - 267 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-04 8:45 PM (#551639 - in reply to #551637)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
This item was the big problem on the trip. You will see that there is a pretty good ridge on the stationary point. I knew I had a points problem midway into the trip, before the rotor broke. Foolishly, I thought we could continue the trip and the points would make it ok. Lessons learned: if the points start to cause problems and your are able to get the car running again, make a beeline to the nearest large city.

Instead of continuing onward with the trip, I should have reversed course and headed straight to Grand Junction, where there would have been a reasonable chance of acquiring a new set of points, new rotor, new distributor cap, etc.



(bad points 1.jpg)



(bad points 3.jpg)



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Attachments bad points 1.jpg (192KB - 262 downloads)
Attachments bad points 3.jpg (149KB - 265 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-04 8:48 PM (#551640 - in reply to #551639)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
A contributing problem was the wire running from the coil to the points. Old, dry, and cracked - it could not have been helping my situation at all. At the best, it was losing amps.



(bad wire 2.jpg)



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Attachments bad wire 2.jpg (246KB - 262 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-04 8:54 PM (#551641 - in reply to #551640)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
This item was what I believe was the root of the problem, and it has probably been malfunctioning for a long time now. Looking back at the family vacation to Yellowstone, I remember burning out the upper tail light lenses and the map light lens. I subsequently replaced most of the interior tungsten filaments with light emitting diodes. This would have been the more prudent replacement. I think this resistor was letting twelve volts run wherever twelve volts wanted to. That would have played havoc with the interior lights and would have burned up points.



(bad resistor 1.jpg)



(bad resistor 2.jpg)



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Attachments bad resistor 1.jpg (231KB - 262 downloads)
Attachments bad resistor 2.jpg (227KB - 248 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-04 9:06 PM (#551643 - in reply to #551641)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
I have now replaced each of these items (including the distributor cap), and the De Soto is running strong once again. Perhaps even better than before I noticed problems. Starts seem much easier and the engine seems to run a bit smoother.

On road trips in the future I shall bring, without fail, the following brand new items in the box as spares:

1) points;
2) a rotor;
3) a distributor cap;
4) a condenser; and
5) a resistor.

All of that takes up about six cubic inches of space and, as my trip to Utah illustrates, may make all the difference.
I am not sure if I could do a great job setting the point gap on the road without my feeler gauge, but at least I would have a shot!
Maybe I should pack along a feeler gauge too.

Here is hoping that none of this ever happens to you!


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RICKYMOPAR
Posted 2017-11-04 9:51 PM (#551645 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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The points look like the condenser died.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-06 5:06 PM (#551738 - in reply to #551645)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
I did replace the condenser last year. That sure may have contributed to the condition of the points!
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RICKYMOPAR
Posted 2017-11-06 9:36 PM (#551767 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Mike, BTW I have an old Allen Syncro-graph distributor machine. You are welcome to use it. Pre-testing some times saves grief.



(Allen Syncro-graph.jpg)



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Attachments Allen Syncro-graph.jpg (265KB - 243 downloads)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-07 2:27 PM (#551790 - in reply to #551767)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
How cool is that! Great stuff, Rick! Thanks, if any other problems creep up with the ignition, I will let you know!
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-15 5:22 PM (#552315 - in reply to #551790)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
I have heard of the points becoming pitted, basically a hole burning into one or both of the points.
The ridge on the stationary point was new to me. What about a failed condenser causes that condition in the points?
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-11-15 7:04 PM (#552322 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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A condenser is basically a large capacitor that absorbs the back EMF in the primary coil that comes from when the secondary coil dumps all its power to the plug. If you don't have a good working condenser, your points will see this back EMF and essentially spark just like the spark plug does. This spark welds and eats up your points because it happens when the gap is small and causes more damage. But the condenser will absorb most of this back EMF. My experience with points is that they work OK at first, but over time the point contact gets worse and worse until eventually you begin to wonder why your car is hard to start and running like such crap. Then you replace the points & condenser and all is well again for another 5K miles or so. I don't have patience for that anymore. One less thing to deal with is well worth the non-stockness or cost to upgrade.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-11-15 8:21 PM (#552331 - in reply to #551641)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Lancer Mike - 2017-11-04 8:54 PM This item was what I believe was the root of the problem, and it has probably been malfunctioning for a long time now. Looking back at the family vacation to Yellowstone, I remember burning out the upper tail light lenses and the map light lens. I subsequently replaced most of the interior tungsten filaments with light emitting diodes. This would have been the more prudent replacement. I think this resistor was letting twelve volts run wherever twelve volts wanted to. That would have played havoc with the interior lights and would have burned up points.


Mike: I don't know much but I am pretty sure that the resistor in question is only involved in limiting the voltage to the OE coil and points system. *NOTHING* to do with the lighting circuits that you are blaming the resistor for causing failures. NOW on a related note, if your Voltage Regulator between your Generator (or maybe alternator (??)) was fubar and was allowing too high voltages into the entire system, that could have caused the lighting failures and maybe even the ignition failure(s).

I went Pertronix on the recommendation of somebody here. As I did so, I went with one of Pertronix's internally ballasted coils, i.e. I don't need the ballast resistor in the system. That said, I kept the resistor attached to the engine (at the right side valve cover). I've just used it as a location for the connection between the power going to the coil. On a trip or in the event of an electromagnetic bomb event, I have a NOS distributor loaded with dual points ready to be dropped into the engine.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-11-15 8:24 PM




(DaveFsD500EngineWithFaked315HemiHeadVinylSticker.jpg)



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Attachments DaveFsD500EngineWithFaked315HemiHeadVinylSticker.jpg (174KB - 270 downloads)
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Mel
Posted 2017-11-19 2:51 AM (#552663 - in reply to #551271)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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What an incredible trip! Great photos! That area is so incredibly beautiful. Experiencing it in your desoto is unmatched!

Be sure you put your spare parts inside a plastic coffee can to protect them from moisture. I learned this the hard way many years ago Also add a small piece of sandpaper to that kit
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-19 9:43 AM (#552677 - in reply to #552663)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
Thanks, Mel! It was magnificent! I would love to go back again. The only downer was the stranding, but it was a pretty big downer. A coffee can would probably fit the bill nicely!
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-11-19 9:53 AM (#552682 - in reply to #552677)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto



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Location: The Mile High City
Thanks Nathan and Dave - I have to admit, some of the electrical components are a bit of a mystery to me. I know their names and where they are. I know when they malfunction the car don't go, but the details of how they work and their exact function can be a little hard for me to explain! Always learning.
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ronbo97
Posted 2017-11-19 12:24 PM (#552694 - in reply to #552682)
Subject: Re: Family Vacation to Moab, Utah in the De Soto


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Yes, always bring spare parts with you on a long trip. Bring tools as well.

You might want to have RickyMopar spin your distributor on the machine to verify that both advances are working correctly. If the distributor has never been rebuilt, the mechanical advance may be gummed up and not moving correctly. My friend rebuilt the dissy on my 55 Desoto and it was like night and day. Car starts immediately...like an new car. And it's a 6V system.

Don't understand the hatin' on points. I've had them last 20K+ miles without problems. You can change out points/condenser and set gap in about 10 minutes.

Your rotor issue was a real freak occurance. One thing you could have done is order the replacement from Rock Auto or NAPA and have them overnight it to where you were staying.

As was mentioned previously, ballast resistor not related to your bulbs burning out. Just old bulbs, probably.

Now that you have time, go thru all the critical systems of your car to make sure that everything's healthy.

Ron

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