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Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-19 7:34 PM (#550632)
Subject: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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I have made some posts on this in somebodyelse's thread and for that, I apologize. I figure that I better start my own thread.

I have seen what Powerflite (Nathan) showed what he did with his cars. Somehow my 4 door 56 Dodge C-pillar is different than his 2 dr Plymouth C-pillar.

Seeing that I need to create a cover plate (or something) to the missing rotted headliner cloth that used to cover the C-pillar, I thought that I could kill two birds with one stone/plate (painted the light blue of the headliner) and figure out how I would mount a shoulder belt upper ring on the C-pillar. Steve at Seatbelt Solutions suggested that I could install a retractor on the parcel shelf but I am very reluctant to mess with my "art" (the parcel shelf shown below). So I am headed towards a non-retracting 3-point with the fixed upper point on the C-pillar.



I *think* that I would like to create a metal plate that would slip inside the C-pillar and provide an anchoring point for the 7/16" x 20 UNF threaded upper seat belt mounting bolt.

My idea is shown below with the cover plate outlined in white and the mounting plate that would be *INSIDE* the C-pillar in yellow. Just an idea. NOTE: I do NOT weld.





Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-19 7:37 PM




(56DodgeRightRearCPillarExposedToAssessSeatBeltAttachment_Annotated.jpg)



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wizard
Posted 2017-10-20 2:09 AM (#550652 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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That would work for the rear seat belts as it's a strong anchor point
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-20 10:08 AM (#550665 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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The yellow outline for your support plate looks good. I don't see the purpose of the white cover. You don't need something on the outside, unless it is just to cover your damaged headliner. Unfortunately, cutting and welding are going to be required for this job. You will likely need to open up the upper opening big enough to get the yellow plate inside, and in place. You will also need to weld the 7/16-20 nut to the backside of the plate. You can thread the plate too, but it won't be enough threat without the nut there. You will also have to plug weld the plate in place and patch up the cut you create above. So find a friend or shop that can do the welding for you once you get all the prep work done.

Also, don't assume the position of the bolt. Have someone sit in the seat and position the belt until it looks and feels the most comfortable.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-10-20 10:10 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-20 12:01 PM (#550670 - in reply to #550665)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Thanks Nathan.

The white outline is the "cover" I need to create anyway to avoid redoing the headliner (at this time). I am going to mock-up the yellow line plate in 1/8" thick aluminum plate (which I have on hand) just to see if I can avoid cutting any of the existing metal. If that doesn't work, I will have to cut and get somebody (maybe my neighbour) to weld.

I hear you on the location of the threaded nut/bolt but I have already sat in the rear seat and the location I have shown is going to be close to where it will end up. Also hear you on the nut that needs to be welded to the plate.



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-21 5:51 PM (#550761 - in reply to #550665)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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On my way home from picking up some NOS parts purchased from Len Dawson and delivered to my mail drop in Point Roberts, WA, I stopped in at LOWES and bought some seat belt mounting supplies:

1. Two 7/16" by 20 nuts, one each to be welded to the mounting plates.

2. 3 ft of 1 1/4" wide x 3/16" thick steel bar/plate to make the mount (or at least trial a mock-up).

I went out to garage after lunch to measure those oval slots for width (1 ") and then started feeling inside the cavity to figure out if there will be any impediments to locating a plate back in there. While I was contemplating the cutting of the upper oval slot to facilitate me sliding down the mounting plate, I felt at the bottom of the bottom oval slot. WAIT A MINUTE, there was nothing inside below that lowest oval. So I pulled the seat back away from the rear bulk head and saw that I have a big opening through which I can slide a mounting plate UP into the cavity. There is also possibility that I can go to 1 1/2" wide and 1/4" thick. I'll play with the material that I have to figure out the limitiations of this idea.

When I took the base photo that I annotated below, the flash exposed the surface rust on the back side of the outer C-pillar. I had previously treated the inner sides of the rear fenders in that area with Rust Converter and Zero Rust anti-rust paint so I went inside and got my can of Rust Converter and sprayed the heck out of that inner C-pillar.

Upwards and on-wards.


Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-21 5:54 PM




(56DodgeRightRearCPillarExposedFurtherToAssessSeatBeltAttachment_Annotated.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-22 3:44 PM (#550807 - in reply to #550761)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Started out this AM with a "Mark 1" plate mock-up. 1.25" wide and about 10" long. Fit okay but realized that it could be longer and wider. So Mark 2 was 1.5" wide and about 11" long. Same thing. Could go longer and wider still. Found a little lip inside the pillar quite low that the plate could rest on. Mark 3 was 2" wide and about 12" long. But it bound on the way in (the trick was to load the plate through that rectangular hole with the bottom out in the trunk and then manipulate the plate up into the C-pillar cavity. Marks 1 and 2 went in fine that way but Mark 3 bound a bit on one corner so I had to take it out and trim the one corner off.

Funny (not) thing, it slipped out of my hands as I was moving it out of the C-pillar cavity and it fell between the outer fender and wheel well tub, never to be seen again. Fortunately it was just hardboard and it won't rattle too much. (I need to try harder to get it out). (The plastic bag you see above the wheel well tub in the second photo is there to prevent me from losing another mock-up (DUH)).

So the remake of Mark 3 had its corner cut off which did the trick.

As shown in the photos below, this is going to be great. Tonnes of coverage of the existing C-pillar structure. Hope it goes as well when I cut the Mark 4 out of steel bar/sheet.

The horizontal piece of 2" wide green masking tape upper edge is the approximate location of that little ledge inside the C-pillar.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-22 3:49 PM




(56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Outside.jpg)



(56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Inside.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Outside.jpg (155KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Inside.jpg (220KB - 8 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-22 5:49 PM (#550808 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Nicely done. I am amazed that you could fit that in there.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-22 6:23 PM (#550809 - in reply to #550808)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Powerflite - 2017-10-22 5:49 PM Nicely done. I am amazed that you could fit that in there.


Me too.

I just started small(er) and made each iteration bigger and bigger. No need to go bigger than what I have now though. The tricks were a) running it into the trunk (above the wheel well tub) before feeding it into the C-pillar cavity and b) clipping that lower corner off to get the initial clearance to make the upwards turn.

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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-23 7:03 PM (#550886 - in reply to #550809)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Just bought 5 ft of 2" wide x 3/16" hot-rolled bar stock for the mounting plate and 4 sq ft of 18 gauge galvanized for the C-pillar cover for $20. More material than I need but the price was right. Lowes was $11 for 3 ft of 2" x 1/8" bar and the 1/8" felt thin. Also bought flanged 7/16" x 20 nuts for the mount. I like the idea of the flange, more strength re: pull through.

Also bought a Eastwood flanging plier to crimp and edge or two.

Now to rescue a cereal box from the recycling bin to make the Mark 1 template for the cover.

The nuts are similar to this but 20 UNF



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-23 7:11 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-23 8:41 PM (#550900 - in reply to #550886)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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56D500boy - 2017-10-23 7:03 PM
Now to rescue a cereal box from the recycling bin to make the Mark 1 template for the cover.


Well that went well (except for all of the Two-scoops of Raisins and a few bran flakes who gave their lives for the box).

A couple more tweeks (like that leading edge point that is missing) and I can cut the first metal trial cover. There is at least 1/2" of cover tucked under the rear window gasket (on purpose).

The challenge will be how to finish the leading edge and figure out how to attach it to the body while trapping the new (yet to be ordered) windlace in that area. I don't want to think screws but it might be the solution.

Below this C-pillar cover and beside the seat, there will very likely be custom-fit panel of 1/8" thick ABS plastic, i.e. waterproof (not that this car will be out in any rain if I can help it) and cut to conform. Same attachment issue





Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-23 9:11 PM




(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark1Template.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCPillarCoverMark1Template.jpg (116KB - 11 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-24 9:16 PM (#550984 - in reply to #550900)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Okay. I worked on three projects today:

1. Organizing the wine storage/Dodge parts storage room. Found a few things. Like another set of OE knobs for my radio. Also found some wine that I had forgotten about (unfortunately white which probably is past its best before date)

2. The gas pedal (some failures)

3. The C-pillar, the topic of this thread.

I used the cardboard template to create a Mark 1 metal cover from the 18 gauge galvanized steel I purchased yesterday. I had thought that I would be using my aircraft metal snips but ended up using my Bosch jig-saw with a new fine tooth metal blade. Cut pretty nicely. Cleaned up the edges with by Bosch angle grinder loaded with a sanding disc.

Tried it in the car. Tucked the rear edge under the rubber of the rear window. Marked up a few changes and then used it as a template to cut a Mark 2 cover. Pretty close. *IF* I feel like it I could cut a Mark 3 (I have enough galvanized to make two more panels, a Mark 3 right and a mirror image I presume, left. Not bad for $10.

I tried the flanging pliers on the rear edge of the Mark 1 metal panel and because the flange made it stiffer, I could NOT get it back into position. SO no flanging, at least on the rear edge.

There was something preventing the Mark 1 and Mark 2 cover panels from sitting tight to the body at the point where there will be windlace. I got out my body work hammer and remedied that situation (now the gap is about the same as the thickness of the thin edge of the windlace.

I also cut a piece of the hot-rolled 2" x 3/16" thick steel for the mounting plate based on the previous hardboard mock-up. I guessed a potential (likely) location of the 7/16" x 20 seat belt upper mounting nut and taped it to the back in case there was going to be an unforeseen clearance issue once the nut is welded on. It was a bit tricky getting the metal plate in there but it went. Might have to bend (arch) it a bit to get a tighter fit to the C-pillar. I had a temporary issue getting the plate out. It jambed strangely but I just need to twist it a bit and it came loose and I got it out.

Then I proceeded to blast the Rust Converted inner cavity with gray Zero-Rust paint followed by Tremclad Royal Blue on the exposed bits of the C-pillar.



(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark1MetalCoverTrial.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial.jpg)



(56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Front.jpg)



(56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Back.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCPillarCoverMark1MetalCoverTrial.jpg (114KB - 12 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial.jpg (113KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Front.jpg (180KB - 10 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Back.jpg (181KB - 10 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-26 9:30 PM (#551136 - in reply to #550984)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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While it was still foggy and cold out this morning, I played around with Paint and created a possible mock-up of the covering of the metal C-pillar cover. It could use paint or the same light blue vinyl I have on part of the rear parcel tray. With or with out the polished aluminum strips (the upper one would be used to cover the headliner that would be glued to the top of the cover). Maybe. I'm just playing.

The rear parcel tray:



The C-pillar mock-up (plain and with the metal strips):







(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial_withPaint_1.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial_withPaint_2.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial_withPaint_1.jpg (148KB - 13 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-11-14 5:13 PM (#552239 - in reply to #550984)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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56D500boy - 2017-10-24 9:16 PM
Then I proceeded to blast the Rust Converted inner cavity with gray Zero-Rust paint followed by Tremclad Royal Blue on the exposed bits of the C-pillar.


Got lost on the front seat belts and forgot to update this thread. Here is the Passenger C-pillar after the above steps.




(DForgies56DodgeCpillarShowingOEOpenings.jpg)



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