The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Numbers
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> Members RidesMessage format
 
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-02 10:32 AM (#543356)
Subject: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
1960 plymouth fury coupe, untouched 383 @ 330k miles (heads never been off, timing gear/chain replaced) 220+k miles stock 61 imperial torqueflite, untouched stock cam/valvetrain, OE OPEN 2.93 rear axle, small (8.5") street tires, all steel body, short of 5 seconds to 60mph. does it sound believable?



(moonbeam1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments moonbeam1.jpg (119KB - 131 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mstrug
Posted 2017-07-02 11:31 AM (#543361 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6498
50001000100100100100252525
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)
No, Except if you use terminal velocity as a factor and drop if off of a bridge at least 992 feet high. I believe 60 mph can be achieved!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-02 1:58 PM (#543368 - in reply to #543361)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
mstrug - 2017-07-02 11:31 AM

No, Except if you use terminal velocity as a factor and drop if off of a bridge at least 992 feet high. I believe 60 mph can be achieved!



well but those are the numbers. in fact, because of traction problems, i can't step on it from a standstill with cold tires. this is the time with cold tires. i had the speedometer checked many years ago, it reads 1 mph slow at 60. i guess i have to check it again. the car is not stock, with "untouched 383" i meant it has never been rebuild, exhaust/intake system, etc is not stock and designed/build by me, further the car has been modified with the emphasis on reduction of rotating mass and weight distribution and i really went crazy with that

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-02 2:34 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2017-07-02 2:36 PM (#543371 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9899
500020002000500100100100252525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
1960fury - 2017-07-02 10:32 AM 1960 plymouth fury coupe, untouched 383 @ 330k miles (heads never been off, timing gear/chain replaced) 220+k miles stock 61 imperial torqueflite, untouched stock cam/valvetrain, OE OPEN 2.93 rear axle, small (8.5") street tires, all steel body, short of 5 seconds to 60mph. does it sound believable?


An open 2.93 rear axle and skinny tires certainly aren't going to help you achieve good 0-60 times even with lots of hp.

According to one 0-60 calculator, you would need 365 hp at the crank to achieve a 4.997 0-60 time with an automatic transmission and rear wheel drive

http://www.060calculator.com/

Try the calculator. I put in 350 hp (measured) for my 3850 lb 93 Audi S4 quattro manual and it came back with 4.837 seconds which I would believe based on factory numbers of 6.6 seconds for the stock 227 hp original car. However, I also know that that testing involved dropping the clutch at north of 4000 RPM which brutalizes the drive train.

(The calculator with 227 hp, 3850 lbs, AWD and manual yielded 6.693 seconds so again, not a bad calculator).





Edited by 56D500boy 2017-07-02 5:11 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-02 2:43 PM (#543372 - in reply to #543371)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
i have a pretty stout rear anti sway bar shimmed for preload, its almost like a sure grip on dry tarmac. at least it helps a little.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2017-07-02 5:10 PM (#543382 - in reply to #543372)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9899
500020002000500100100100252525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
1960fury - 2017-07-02 2:43 PM i have a pretty stout rear anti sway bar shimmed for preload, its almost like a sure grip on dry tarmac. at least it helps a little.


Sorry. I think you are dreaming.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-02 5:21 PM (#543383 - in reply to #543382)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
56D500boy - 2017-07-02 5:10 PM

1960fury - 2017-07-02 2:43 PM i have a pretty stout rear anti sway bar shimmed for preload, its almost like a sure grip on dry tarmac. at least it helps a little.


Sorry. I think you are dreaming.
:)


why? don't you understand how anti sway bars work? "almost like" maybe not but it helps to improve traction.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-02 5:26 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Viper Guy
Posted 2017-07-02 10:00 PM (#543394 - in reply to #543383)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert

Posts: 2002
2000
Location: Branson, MO
The Anti-Sway bar is an Anti-Roll bar that aids in lessening body lean and wallowy ride. Keep in mind these Anti-Sway or Anti-Roll bars are used on both the front and rear of automobiles. I'm fairly certain there is no traction benefit from an Anti-Roll bar.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2017-07-02 11:19 PM (#543399 - in reply to #543394)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9899
500020002000500100100100252525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Herr 1960Fury is going to tell us that he has adjusted the rear sway bar so there is some pre-load on the right rear wheel, not unlike mounting the battery in the right rear corner of the trunk to gain better traction. Whether or not that is actually possible, I don't know.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-03 3:03 AM (#543411 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9650
5000200020005001002525
Location: So. Cal
Personally Sid, I really don't care about the numbers. All I see is a great ride that is well used, well enjoyed, and well cared for. Looks great! The fact that you have gotten so many miles on the motor is a testament to how well tuned you keep the carb settings. It is over-rich carbs that pre-maturely wear out the motor.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
60 Imp
Posted 2017-07-03 4:21 AM (#543413 - in reply to #543411)
Subject: RE: Numbers


2000100050025
Location: North Australia
Powerflite - 2017-07-03 5:03 PM

Personally Sid, I really don't care about the numbers. All I see is a great ride that is well used, well enjoyed, and well cared for. Looks great! The fact that you have gotten so many miles on the motor is a testament to how well tuned you keep the carb settings. It is over-rich carbs that pre-maturely wear out the motor.


Plus careful servicing with high quality consumables (filters, oil, grease etc), plus the quality of the original build (materials used, tolerances etc). Maybe the parts on Sid's car was built shortly after the machinery tolerances were set (a Wednesday motor!). Add to this careful use (warm up and cool down of the machine) between the high speed runs on the Autobahn all contribute to longevity.

I re-built my 45 series Toyota Landcruiser H Diesel engine at 780,000 Km's. It was tired but still going strong!

Steve.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-03 2:16 PM (#543452 - in reply to #543413)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
thanks Nathan and Steven. the funny thing is that the motor was apparently abused before i got it. the valve train was/is covered with oil caron and there was an inch of sludge in the oil pan. i tought that motor can't last but since i didn't have time and money for a rebuild, i simply changed to quality oils hoping its going to last for a year or two. that is now almost 30 years ago. i use to drive it daily for many years and really used all its power (that hasn't changed much) rarely a week i didn't pegg the speedo. yet, it never caused any problems whatsoever and still runs like new. lots of blowby but perfect oil pressure and no unusual noises. needless to say i'm the worlds biggest mopar low deck wedge fan.

the drivers side valve cover started to leak a few weaks ago, i was surprised not to find a silicone gasket that i thought i installed, hence the leak, anyway the rockers still looked the way i remember them. 150++K miles with synthtic oil didn't clean anything it seems. untouched 330k mile rockers:

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-03 5:11 PM




(rocker.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments rocker.jpg (96KB - 120 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-03 2:37 PM (#543456 - in reply to #543399)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
56D500boy - 2017-07-02 11:19 PM

Herr 1960Fury is going to tell us that he has adjusted the rear sway bar so there is some pre-load on the right rear wheel, not unlike mounting the battery in the right rear corner of the trunk to gain better traction. Whether or not that is actually possible, I don't know.

:)


yes, "herr 1960fury" is simply pointing out a physical fact and while you are or "thinking" "herr 1960fury" isn't "dreaming", he knows. i have the battery in the right rear corner of the trunk and a heavy front and rear sway bar, the later not only reduces sway it helps with traction too.
depending on the direction of prop shaft rotation one wheel of a solid axle is pushed to the ground and the other is lifted resulting in spin of the unloaded wheel with an open differential. the anti sway bar simply reduces/equalizes these forces and therefore improves traction. and of course you can adjust some pre load even though it probably negatively affects handling.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-03 2:51 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-03 2:54 PM (#543457 - in reply to #543394)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
Viper Guy - 2017-07-02 10:00 PM

The Anti-Sway bar is an Anti-Roll bar that aids in lessening body lean and wallowy ride. Keep in mind these Anti-Sway or Anti-Roll bars are used on both the front and rear of automobiles. I'm fairly certain there is no traction benefit from an Anti-Roll bar.


then i'm fairly certain you do not understand how anti sway bars work.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2017-07-03 2:58 PM (#543458 - in reply to #543456)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9899
500020002000500100100100252525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
1960fury - 2017-07-03 2:37 PM yes, "herr 1960fury" is simply pointing out a physical fact and while you are or "thinking" "herr 1960fury" isn't "dreaming", he knows. i have the battery in the right rear corner of the trunk and a heavy front and rear sway bar, the later not only reduces sway it helps with traction too..


Whatever.

I would be willing to bet that my little 2.2L turbo 93 UrS4 4 door sedan would beat your rear-sway-barred, battery-in-the-right corner, 383 Plymouth 0-60 mph, 0-100 kph, 1320 ft, 400 m and top speed without any problems.

The question is, why would you subject a 57 year old mostly stock car to any kind of speed competition? Sounds like trouble.

Alles klar?

Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-03 3:46 PM (#543461 - in reply to #543458)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
56D500boy - 2017-07-03 2:58 PM

1960fury - 2017-07-03 2:37 PM yes, "herr 1960fury" is simply pointing out a physical fact and while you are or "thinking" "herr 1960fury" isn't "dreaming", he knows. i have the battery in the right rear corner of the trunk and a heavy front and rear sway bar, the later not only reduces sway it helps with traction too..


Whatever.

I would be willing to bet that my little 2.2L turbo 93 UrS4 4 door sedan would beat your rear-sway-barred, battery-in-the-right corner, 383 Plymouth 0-60 mph, 0-100 kph, 1320 ft, 400 m and top speed without any problems.

The question is, why would you subject a 57 year old mostly stock car to any kind of speed competition? Sounds like trouble.

Alles klar?

;)


could be, no problem, lots of cars can beat my fury but you need a turbo, i don't. my car was 33 years old when yours rolled of the assembly line and yet my car will probably still run when your car is long gone. and even if yours can run circles around mine (lots of saab/volvo/mercedes/bmw/audi/etc owners here thought they could....) its still a 1993 saab and mine is a 1960 fury.

why? its a golden commando and they were build just for that and because its fun and live is short. you either have gasoline in your veins or you don't, then you don't understand. speeding in a 57 year old V8 muscle car car is an experiences you can't have in a turbo saab or porsche. trouble? it works for me for almost 30 years.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-03 5:14 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ruchaven
Posted 2017-07-03 6:02 PM (#543466 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: Re: Numbers


Expert

Posts: 1231
100010010025
Location: York County, PA
Son, see you at the track. And I will make sure the timer is calibrated to ISO standards. There are too many of us on this side of the pond with German blood in our veins to buy your BS.

Edited by ruchaven 2017-07-03 6:07 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Viper Guy
Posted 2017-07-03 10:29 PM (#543476 - in reply to #543457)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert

Posts: 2002
2000
Location: Branson, MO
1960fury - 2017-07-03 1:54 PM

Viper Guy - 2017-07-02 10:00 PM

The Anti-Sway bar is an Anti-Roll bar that aids in lessening body lean and wallowy ride. Keep in mind these Anti-Sway or Anti-Roll bars are used on both the front and rear of automobiles. I'm fairly certain there is no traction benefit from an Anti-Roll bar.


then i'm fairly certain you do not understand how anti sway bars work.


Whatever! I'm an engineer and a drag racer. I removed anti-sway bars from our drag cars to reduce weight and had the battery mounted in the trunk by the RR wheel well. On a roundy round track or road course, it would be a different story - less sway and body lean with lower center of gravity equals better control and handling. Traction is between the road surface and tires referred to as the contact patch. If, as you say, the anti-roll bar would put more downward force on a particular wheel, then the contact patch would increase and there would be greater traction. I just don't see it happening to any degree that a substantial benefit would be detected.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
dlvh
Posted 2017-07-03 11:03 PM (#543477 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Member

Posts: 13

Location: Michigan, USA
Looking forward to seeing this 60 Plymouth Fury really go Sid! Or, just some nice pictures of your car and girlfriend showing off your beauty.

Edited by dlvh 2017-07-03 11:05 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2017-07-04 2:18 AM (#543481 - in reply to #543477)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9899
500020002000500100100100252525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
1950s
Car Year Tested 1/4-mile (sec @ mph)-- 0-60 mph (sec)
1.) Maserati 200 SE 1957 13.9 @ --4.4
2.) Ferrari 4.9 Superfast 1958 13.9 @ 108 -- 5.6
3.) Chevrolet Corvette 1957 14.2 @ 93 --6.6
4.) Chevrolet 315 Del Rey 1959 15.2 @ 96 -- 7.2
5.) Plymouth Fury 1958 15.5 @ 86 -- 7.7
6.) Ferrari 250 California 1959 15.6 @ 97 --7.2
7.) Chevrolet Bel Air 1959 16.7 @ 94-- 8.4
8.) Chrysler 300E 1959 17.2 @ 92 -- 8.7
9.) Austin-Healey 3000 1959 17.8 @ 78 --10.9
10.) BMW 507 1959 17.8 @ 77-- 10.2

Reference: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/rocket-sleds-the-best-performe...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57plybel
Posted 2017-07-04 6:29 AM (#543490 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 594
500252525
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Sensational car Sid; nice stance too.....  it must look like an alien vehicle to the masses !    I must search for your engine specs as Im building a similar low deck wedge for myself !

 

Colin

Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-04 7:11 AM (#543491 - in reply to #543477)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
dlvh - 2017-07-03 11:03 PM

Looking forward to seeing this 60 Plymouth Fury really go Sid! Or, just some nice pictures of your car and girlfriend showing off your beauty. ;)



Thanks! i never posted a video before but if i can borrow or find a cheap gps tracker i will try. i guess i have to upload the video somewhere. as i stated above i had the speedo checked years ago and it read 1 mph slow at 60. could be off a little now but i guess not by much as the transmission still shifts at the same speeds under wot and i'm still running the same tire size.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-04 7:59 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-04 7:13 AM (#543492 - in reply to #543481)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
56D500boy - 2017-07-04 2:18 AM

1950s
Car Year Tested 1/4-mile (sec @ mph)-- 0-60 mph (sec)
1.) Maserati 200 SE 1957 13.9 @ --4.4
2.) Ferrari 4.9 Superfast 1958 13.9 @ 108 -- 5.6
3.) Chevrolet Corvette 1957 14.2 @ 93 --6.6
4.) Chevrolet 315 Del Rey 1959 15.2 @ 96 -- 7.2
5.) Plymouth Fury 1958 15.5 @ 86 -- 7.7
6.) Ferrari 250 California 1959 15.6 @ 97 --7.2
7.) Chevrolet Bel Air 1959 16.7 @ 94-- 8.4
8.) Chrysler 300E 1959 17.2 @ 92 -- 8.7
9.) Austin-Healey 3000 1959 17.8 @ 78 --10.9
10.) BMW 507 1959 17.8 @ 77-- 10.2

Reference: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/rocket-sleds-the-best-performe...


a magazine tested a 361 60 fury and it took 6.8 seconds to 60.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-04 7:14 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-04 7:44 AM (#543494 - in reply to #543476)
Subject: RE: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
Viper Guy - 2017-07-03 10:29 PM

1960fury - 2017-07-03 1:54 PM

Viper Guy - 2017-07-02 10:00 PM

The Anti-Sway bar is an Anti-Roll bar that aids in lessening body lean and wallowy ride. Keep in mind these Anti-Sway or Anti-Roll bars are used on both the front and rear of automobiles. I'm fairly certain there is no traction benefit from an Anti-Roll bar.


then i'm fairly certain you do not understand how anti sway bars work.


Whatever! I'm an engineer and a drag racer. I removed anti-sway bars from our drag cars to reduce weight and had the battery mounted in the trunk by the RR wheel well. On a roundy round track or road course, it would be a different story - less sway and body lean with lower center of gravity equals better control and handling. Traction is between the road surface and tires referred to as the contact patch. If, as you say, the anti-roll bar would put more downward force on a particular wheel, then the contact patch would increase and there would be greater traction. I just don't see it happening to any degree that a substantial benefit would be detected.


you mean you are an engineer and dragracer and you do not understand the simple action of an anti sway bar? engineer of what kind? if one rear wheel of a solid axle is pushed to the ground during hard acceleration the other is lifted. well known phenomenon. are you denying this? a sway bar simply reduces or equalizes this unwanted action.
do you realize that anti roll bars connect the wheels of an axle and if one wheel moves up or down the other will try follow a certain amount depending on sway bar size?
this is how an anti sway bar works. so if one wheel is pushed down the other side is supplying spring pressure via the sway (torsion) bar to counteract this. if you do not understand this simple thing, i can't help you.
same as if one wheel hits a bump or something, the anti sway bar makes the rear spring act stiffer. of course not when both wheels hit the bump at the same time but this is not the case during acceleration.


Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-04 9:53 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
b5rt
Posted 2017-07-04 8:10 AM (#543496 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert

Posts: 2519
2000500
Location: central Illinois
With the statement " short of 5 seconds to 60mph." are you implying sub 6 seconds? If so that is entirely plausible. Going with the "http://www.060calculator.com/" above, I simply dialed in 3600 lbs since Sid says he's put it on a diet. Then 325 HP which again is plausible, and came up with a time of 5.452 seconds. You can play with these numbers yourself.

If you're saying less that 5 seconds I came up with the following.

340 HP @ 3500 =5.16
350 HP @ 3500 =5.049

Have you ever put your car on scales to see what its actual weight is?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-07-04 8:25 AM (#543497 - in reply to #543496)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7393
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
b5rt - 2017-07-04 8:10 AM

With the statement " short of 5 seconds to 60mph." are you implying sub 6 seconds? If so that is entirely plausible. Going with the "http://www.060calculator.com/" above, I simply dialed in 3600 lbs since Sid says he's put it on a diet. Then 325 HP which again is plausible, and came up with a time of 5.452 seconds. You can play with these numbers yourself.

If you're saying less that 5 seconds I came up with the following.

340 HP @ 3500 =5.16
350 HP @ 3500 =5.049

Have you ever put your car on scales to see what its actual weight is?


it has no options except power steering i had it on a scale and iirc it was @ 1650kg. not much for a 6.3 but there is a big difference between weight and rotating weight. if you know what you're doing you can get easily 50++ hp from these cars without switching to a bigger cam. these cars rolled of the assembly line with very heavy drum brakes, heavy wheels, heavy parking brake drums, "static" fans, heavy pulleys (that turn alternators/ps pumps unnesserarily fast) and no windage trays.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-04 8:48 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-04 9:29 AM (#543501 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: Re: Numbers



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9650
5000200020005001002525
Location: So. Cal
One of the reasons why your motor does so well even after many miles is that it came with 10:1 compression. The 361 in my '58 DeSoto was similar. It had a lot of blowby and was obviously quite worn, but because of the high compression, it still ran pretty well.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2017-07-04 9:49 AM (#543504 - in reply to #543356)
Subject: Re: Numbers


Expert 5K+

Posts: 5006
5000
wait WHAT??? something is wrong with this number. Was there a super duty drag race version? the super duty did 15.3...

8.) Pontiac Catalina 1965

13.8 @ 106

3.9
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

* * * This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated * * *


(Delete all cookies set by this site)