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Ignition options
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   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Engine, Exhaust, Fuel and IgnitionMessage format
 
plymouth
Posted 2017-06-30 7:23 PM (#543266)
Subject: Ignition options



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Location: McComb, Mississippi
My rebuilt 413 is running great with the points ignition system, although I had to go through two condensers before I found a good one. I have faith in the points ignition system. Its the quality of new parts that I don't have much faith in. I'm going to see how this condenser and points set holds up over the next few months. For originality, who makes good quality points and condensers? If the current system doesn't hold up well, ill be swapping over to something like mopar performance electronic ignition.
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plymouth
Posted 2017-07-05 2:04 PM (#543577 - in reply to #543266)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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Posts: 2264
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Location: McComb, Mississippi
Bump
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57chizler
Posted 2017-07-05 2:45 PM (#543581 - in reply to #543266)
Subject: RE: Ignition options



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I prefer Pertronix over the Mopar EI.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-05 2:56 PM (#543582 - in reply to #543581)
Subject: RE: Ignition options



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Practically everyone swaps to electronic ignition. Points aren't worth messing with. I ran with points for many years and they do work, but your motor performance gradually decreases with time, making it harder to start and generally run worse until you finally realize that it is probably time to mess with those !@#@$! points again. Save yourself the trouble and just swap to electronic now.
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wizard
Posted 2017-07-05 3:26 PM (#543583 - in reply to #543266)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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For those who likes to keep the points;

There are aftermarket concentric breaker plates out there - old stuff.

Or, get a double breaker dizzy - they had the concentric breaker plate as standard.

Original was excentric breaker plate - this means wrong dwell when the vacuum chamber moves the breaker plate.

With concentric breaker plate the points will have longer lifetime and the dwell will be constant.

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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-07-05 3:40 PM (#543585 - in reply to #543266)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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For simplicity, you could always go with a stock later model electronic distributor and install a 4-pin HEI module.
No more ballast resistor needed as it runs on 12-14v, again simplifying the ignition system.


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plymouth
Posted 2017-07-05 5:53 PM (#543593 - in reply to #543585)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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Location: McComb, Mississippi
What's the difference between the GM HEI module and tie mopar counterpart?
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-07-05 6:26 PM (#543597 - in reply to #543593)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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The mopar version was designed earlier by 4 years, but uses an older switching setup that requires you to reduce the current to the unit with a ballast resistor. This limits the amount of power you can supply to your plugs. Whereas, the GM module is a more efficient design that can handle full current load. I actually sell a conversion for this to mount it to the bottom of a Mopar electronic distributor. You can read more about it and the differences between the ignition systems here:

http://www.designed2drive.com
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plymouth
Posted 2017-07-05 6:34 PM (#543598 - in reply to #543597)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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Posts: 2264
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Location: McComb, Mississippi
Thank you!
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wayfarer
Posted 2017-07-06 10:25 AM (#543641 - in reply to #543266)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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Which ever system you choose, GROUND the box/module !! Electronic systems must have proper grounding or you will be cussing...
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-07-07 4:51 PM (#543722 - in reply to #543266)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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A 7 or 8-pin HEI module would be even better as they can handle a bit more power throughput to the coil.
The remaining pins could be left unhooked.
I've been running a HEI-module setup in my daily used '73 Dart for awhile without issues.
(Currently I'm running a MegaSquirt 3x ECU setup with 7-pin HEI module as ignition source so I'm able to set/adjust the ignitition advance curve digitally. The engine has picked up power in about all its rpm ranges.)
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plymouth
Posted 2017-07-07 4:55 PM (#543723 - in reply to #543722)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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Location: McComb, Mississippi
I'm interested in this. Would you mind going into detail about the megasquirt and adjusting advance curves electronically?
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-07-07 6:35 PM (#543728 - in reply to #543266)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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I've got a few posts on my homepage (link below) about the MegaSquirt installation in my car.
Once you put an electronic distributor in the engine (or better, a crank mounted trigger wheel) you can install a MegaSquirt ECU (version 2 will suffice too).
Important is the distributor has no (working) mechanical or vacuum advance mechanisms. A Chrysler Lean Burn distributor is a perfect candidate for this.

MegaSquirt is/can be used for fuel injection and ignition, but you can leave out what you don't want/need.
It's mostly a DIY-system. The more you do yourself, the more (money) you can save.

The MegaSquirt ECU (v3) has a 16x16 table with cells where you can enter the advance numbers in.
The X-axis is RPM range, the Y-axis is the engine load (or vacuum, shown as kiloPascal in kPa). ±101% kPa is baromatic pressure at sea level or 0" vacuum. 50% kPa is roughly 15" vacuum.

Engine vacuum is connected directly to the MS ECU.
Timing is taken from the distributor which has a known fixed advance. The MS ECU calculates the actual ignition advance based on this and the engine's current state/position on the timing map.
The timing table, and many many more other settings in the ECU can be controlled by a laptop and a program called TunerStudio.
Tunerstudio has a free edition where you already can program and tune an engine to run nicely very.
Its paid version has more functions like, AutoTune, which can adjust and tune the fuel injection map while you drive around. Of course fuel injectors and a exhaust gas oxygen sensor are needed here.

Tuning timing advance can be done with regular driving and adjusting the ignition table with a laptop on the passenger seat for instance.
Adjust a certain area of the timing map, like Light throttle acceleration for instance, and take the car for a spin right after to see/feel the difference.





Edited by BigBlockMopar 2017-07-07 6:36 PM
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plymouth
Posted 2017-07-07 7:06 PM (#543729 - in reply to #543728)
Subject: Re: Ignition options



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Posts: 2264
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Location: McComb, Mississippi
Thank you so much for the information!
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