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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6497
   
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-1958-1959-1960-1961-NOS-MOPAR-IDLER-AR...
1444544943?hash=item27eae425af:g:qo4AAOSw-jhUBf34&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Idler-Arm-Bushing-for-1957-1961-Plymouth-Do...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-58-59-60-61-62-Fury-300-Adventurer-Cor... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| That top one looks rotted, Bernbaums has them still for 29$ |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 769
Location: Oley, PA | I agree, the idler arm bushings aren't hard to find.
But... if you have a worn idler arm bushing, why not replace it with a ball-bearing conversion kit? These kits were common in the 60's and 70's and provide improved performance over the bushing. I've got one in my 59 Windsor.
The kits turn up on ebay pretty often. Here's one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-62-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-Idler-Arm-R...
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | Greg P. - 2017-03-09 12:37 PM
I agree, the idler arm bushings aren't hard to find.
But... if you have a worn idler arm bushing, why not replace it with a ball-bearing conversion kit? These kits were common in the 60's and 70's and provide improved performance over the bushing. I've got one in my 59 Windsor.
right, in fact they were OE on mopars since 1960. rubber bushings add to steering play even when new. i offer an improved completely sealed hd ball bearing kit. search this subject on this site. just sold lots of them in germany, everyone is happy. i personally use it for 100k+ miles, still like new. they just can't wear out.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-03-09 1:27 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| 60$ vs 25$ but if you have to cough up the 50$ on rubber, yes go with ball bearing.
the new rubber ones seem pretty stout, not soft rubber. At least the AC Delco ones seemed much stiffer than stock.
I found a deal on a solid eurathane idler arm bushing |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2017-03-09 8:52 PM
the new rubber ones seem pretty stout, not soft rubber.
its the leverage and rubber will always give. 0,5mm vertical play or less will be felt in the steering wheel and translats into steering freeplay. grab a wheel at 3 and 9 o clock position and try to turn the wheel to the left and right, watch the idler arm and keep in mind this is not nearly the force applied to the wheel when you drive and brake. the idler arm WILL move up and down, new rubber or old rubber.
this can, or will, also result in pulling to either direction when you brake, as toe in changes when the idler arm moves.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-03-10 9:14 AM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| a parked car turning the wheels on concrete will be more force on the steering vs moving. Turning the wheel while driving requires less force... just fyi |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2017-03-10 10:10 AM
a parked car turning the wheels on concrete will be more force on the steering vs moving. Turning the wheel while driving requires less force... just fyi
this is not about the force needed to turn a wheel. ever heard of kinetic energy? when you doing a fast turn or when you brake your car weights a lot more then its curb weight. depending on speed there are several tons on the front wheel. the only connection between the road and the car are the tires/wheels. also when you brake, driving forward, weight shifts to the front. tires are forced away from its proper toe in position with an unstable steering connection/geometry. its absolutely impossible to generate that kinetical force by hand, no matter how build you are. just fyi.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-03-10 12:02 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| And the majority of those forces are distributed across the entire suspension, the idler arm bushing is only absorbing part of that force. This would explain why cars and trucks for decades used plain rubber bushings on their idler arms and didn't split them the first time you turned the wheel... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | think and do what you want but rubber idler arm bushings were obsolete on chryslers and many other cars since the early 60s. for a good reason mopar switched to ball bearings on all cars manufactured since july 1960 and advices to replace rubber bushings with ball bearings if they need service on cars manufactured before. they are far more expensive to produce and weren't introduced without a reason.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-03-10 5:37 PM
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 7-13-60bulletin.jpg (89KB - 192 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| are you claiming no Chrysler cars\trucks used only ball bearings for their idler arms since 1960? because that's not true at all.
GM and Ford used insulated bushings extensively also. Do I need to show you non ball bearing bushings on Chrysler cars after 1960? really? You should realize why they use insulated steering components, metal on metal is bad...
here is one very popular rubber bushing idler arm... used on Chrysler vehicles from the factory for a decade .. from 65 to 1978... that's over a decade
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mog-k7046/applications
I can post GM and Ford examples that were used forever also... I would expect Chrysler used too soft of rubber and simply put ball bearing setups in there as a quick fix. They probably had failures with ball bearings and went back to rubber.
The modern AC delco replacement bushings use a harder durometer rubber than the stock 1950s junk also btw...
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2017-03-10 6:49 PM
You should realize why they use insulated steering components, metal on metal is bad...
metal on metal is bad? not true at all when it comes to steering control, road feel/steering feedback and to keep the toe in setttings stable. replacing the rubber bushing in the oe center links greatly improves steering too (check link below) and road shock can't be transmitted via an idler arm, that is impossible. do you really believe an unstable toe in and steering play makes you ride more comfortable?
the physical facts remain the same, ball bearings instead of rubber mean less steering play. you may like a mushy steering with lots of play but you are alone.
read the bulletin above, this was an upgrade to improve steering, if they changed back to rubber it does not surprise me looking at the failing junk cars of the 70s and 80s.
http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=46973&post...
Edited by 1960fury 2017-03-10 8:50 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2017-03-10 6:49 PM
are you claiming no Chrysler cars\trucks used only ball bearings for their idler arms since 1960? because that's not true at all.
GM and Ford used insulated bushings extensively also. Do I need to show you non ball bearing bushings on Chrysler cars after 1960? really? You should realize why they use insulated steering components, metal on metal is bad...
here is one very popular rubber bushing idler arm... used on Chrysler vehicles from the factory for a decade .. from 65 to 1978... that's over a decade
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mog-k7046/applications
thanks you posted that. i just googled this and it took me only a few seconds to find this labeled as PROBLEM SOLVER by moog. same application but a SOLID GREASABLE DESIGN (note 2 zerk fittings). hmm, why problem solver? read the description:
Feature 1--Problem Solver(R) powdered metal gusher bearing design enables grease to flow through the bearing to the stud for reduced friction and enhanced strength and stability.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moog-K7014-Idler-Arm-Replacement-Chrysler-D...
Edited by 1960fury 2017-03-10 8:52 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| First... So you admit you were wrong? You ignored my question... Second.. sigh... "Problem solver" is a trademark if you didn't know. It like the "new" coke... also TM... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | mikes2nd - 2017-03-10 9:01 PM
First... So you admit you were wrong? You ignored my question... Second.. sigh... "Problem solver" is a trademark if you didn't know. It like the "new" coke... also TM...
wrong about what? that idler arms with ball bearings are an upgrade and reduce steering play (that was the topic)? no.
what question exactly? that rubber bushing idler arms existet after 1960? that is obviously the case and i never denied that, i just said they were obsolete.
sigh....."problem solver" is a trademark by moog for IMPROVED components that SOLVE PROBLEMS, in case you didn't know. in this case a SOLID idler arm bushing instead of rubber.
Edited by 1960fury 2017-03-11 9:43 AM
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Regular
Posts: 68
Location: Stockholm Sweden | Hi 1960fury, Hi, I wonder if you still offer/make these idler arm bushings, my present bushing needs to be replaced,has some slack.
I´ve got a new but old rubber NOS bushing by HARRIS (yet sold to me as MOOG K-788) but won´t use it after I read your comments
Thanks, Johan |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| Did you read this? 
I think the ball bearing repro's are your only option now. I got the last acdelco idler arm bushing on earth it seemed and it was actually a hard poly bushing which I think would be similar.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=65559&...
The old Jamco kits are solid also.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-62-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-Idler-Arm-R...
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13045
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The Jamco kit is fubar due to the applyed grease - the instructions informs that absolutely no grease should be applied.
Also, both price and shipping is ridiculous, especially for bad parts......... |
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Idler Arm Bushing
