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'57 New Yorker Coupe
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-12-23 8:20 PM (#529650)
Subject: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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John & M'Lisa dropped by my place today and dropped off this little gem. It is a well optioned Los Angeles built car, but unfortunately missing it's motor and trans. So I am going to put a Cummins diesel into it with vertical stacks on either side of the doors and 4wd axles..... just kidding. I have a 392 hemi from a '57 New Yorker in the garage that seems the perfect fit for this car. The trans will likely come from my '58 Desoto, but I am going to have to finish replacing the drivetrain in my Desoto first before I can get to work on this car. It started raining almost as soon as John left so I didn't get a lot of time to play with it yet, but I did clear out a lot of the leaves and dirt from the engine bay.

One question I have is: I know that most of the lower level cars got battleship gray engine bays and trunks. But were the upper level cars painted the same way? I ask because I have never seen a 300C or 300D painted this way, as well as some other high end cars. So would this New Yorker be painted gray or body color?



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GregCon
Posted 2016-12-23 8:22 PM (#529651 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Lovely!
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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-23 9:08 PM (#529655 - in reply to #529651)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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This should be same colour as roof, when the car was painted, roof would have been first to be painted, then masked and body painted over the overspray from roof, paint worn or burnt over time leaving the colour of roof showing, but if you notice the fenders that are painted separate to body that is showing the red primer coat.



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Powerflite
Posted 2016-12-23 9:40 PM (#529658 - in reply to #529655)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Thanks, my question is more about the engine bay and trunk. I guess I could do a little bit of investigation there once I get it cleaned up.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-23 10:18 PM (#529660 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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If you look at Greg's restoration pictures on the 300 he did, most of the panels are bolted to the car before paint, but this one looks to have had the front fenders painted before they are fitted? May be to do with the plant they are built? I had a all Black 58 Dodge custom royal , Canadian built but with Dodge front, that was grey in trunk and underside, yet the 58 Regal is Black in trunk and underside painted over the red oxide primer?
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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-23 10:24 PM (#529662 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Nathan, that looks a fairly sound and unmessed with car, does it have any power windows or seat etc, there was a member from the UK interested in that one , looks like he lost out on that one?
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-12-24 2:21 AM (#529674 - in reply to #529662)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Yes, it looks like it has quite a few options. Power windows, seat, brakes & steering, washer, dual rear antennae, signal seeking radio, rear speaker, but no fender or hood ornaments.
Here is the body tag, although LA tags don't give out much info. It looks like I have one original black plate for the car. If I could find the other, I should be able to get it licensed with them.



(BodyTag.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2016-12-24 7:10 PM (#529714 - in reply to #529674)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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I thought Ed would jump in on this underhood color subject.

Although I do not know this as fact for all marques, the 57 DeSotos
built in Detroit had grey inner fender panels, whereas those built in
L.A. had P&A Black. I would presume the Chryslers would be the same.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-12-24 10:04 PM (#529715 - in reply to #529714)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Got a chance to look over it a bit today. The trunk lid and trunk are definitely gray color. The trunk lid is also definitely toast. Rusted out all along the edges on both the inside and outside. So I replaced it with a 300D lid and removed all the trim pieces on it so it could be disposed of. The 300D trunk lid is painted body color (black) on the inside, by the way, and has some indents along the front lower edge that are not present on the New Yorker lid. I also replaced the broken taillight lens & missing New Yorker emblem. This lens is cracked, but at least it looks better than it did.

I have this one license plate that was originally on the front, and it is the correct plate number on the title. So I need the other one. John, if you could check your place to see if you have another black DFF-403 plate somewhere, I would really appreciate it. I would really like to use these plates when I register it, but I need the other one in order to do it.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-12-24 10:15 PM




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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-26 10:53 AM (#529772 - in reply to #529715)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Powerflite - 2016-12-25 3:04 AM

Got a chance to look over it a bit today. The trunk lid and trunk are definitely gray color. The trunk lid is also definitely toast. Rusted out all along the edges on both the inside and outside. So I replaced it with a 300D lid and removed all the trim pieces on it so it could be disposed of. The 300D trunk lid is painted body color (black) on the inside, by the way, and has some indents along the front lower edge that are not present on the New Yorker lid. I also replaced the broken taillight lens & missing New Yorker emblem. This lens is cracked, but at least it looks better than it did.

I have this one license plate that was originally on the front, and it is the correct plate number on the title. So I need the other one. John, if you could check your place to see if you have another black DFF-403 plate somewhere, I would really appreciate it. I would really like to use these plates when I register it, but I need the other one in order to do it.


Nathan, those indentations you are referring to seem to be the difference between a 57 and 58 trunk lid?
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-12-26 12:19 PM (#529776 - in reply to #529772)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Yes, I think all the '58 lids have them. They are present on my '58 Desoto lid too.



('58 Indents.jpg)



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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2016-12-26 10:50 PM (#529824 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: RE: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Nice find. My 57 NYer was built in LA also. The firewall was for sure painted the body color. I'm not sure about the inner fenders as mine have been repainted black.
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57burb
Posted 2017-01-09 11:41 AM (#530895 - in reply to #529824)
Subject: RE: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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This will give you an idea of how the Detroit-built NYer front clips were assembled.

Everywhere you see gray = factory Mist Gray paint

Everywhere you see brown = factory unpainted area

No wonder these cars were such rust buckets. I'm fortunate to have such a solid car. It was bought new in Oklahoma and spent some time in Texas.



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-09 11:57 AM (#530896 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Yeah, I agree. The interiors have even less paint. That's why the roofs rust out so easily on these cars. But it looks like you are in a good position to change all that.
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-01-09 9:49 PM (#530964 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Danny, what is the story of the new frame crossmember and engine mounts? Maybe start a new thread on it?
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57burb
Posted 2017-01-09 10:31 PM (#530970 - in reply to #530964)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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They aren't new; they're just clean. It's getting a 392 again.
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billy
Posted 2017-01-10 12:03 PM (#531008 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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I may be able to help you Nathan....I have the 4 dr sedan version...cloud white roof, jet black body, green interior, 392 Hemi, AC, Power windows, Powerseat,dual antennaes...mine is Detroit built, 1st 1/2 of 57 with the single headlights....
Nice ride Nathan.....
billy




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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-10 12:31 PM (#531010 - in reply to #531008)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Almost like twins! That must have been a popular non-color combo back then. I like it alot better with the stripe painted white, rather than black like mine. Really nice, clean New Yorker you have there. It would be great to get some detailed info from you as it arises.

What is your trim code for the green interior? I think my interior is black/white or maybe beige with trim code 026. But I have no idea what 026 should look like.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-01-10 12:35 PM
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billy
Posted 2017-01-11 12:25 PM (#531080 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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I'll pull my build sheet at home and will let you know...
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billy
Posted 2017-01-12 11:49 AM (#531153 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Trim code 15 = Dark Green Starlite Faille & Med. Green Broadcloth........per Build sheet
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billy
Posted 2017-01-12 11:53 AM (#531155 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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All your outside molding looks in good shape...those are not very easy to come by these days....looks like a nice project....what color are your valve covers and the big arse air cleaner on your engine??? Mine both need to be re-painted..
Also i'm in the market for the spark plug covers that attach to the valve covers....if you hear of any being sold...
billy
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RUSTORICHES
Posted 2017-01-12 12:46 PM (#531159 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe


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I can come down to help you with the 57 Chrysler just to get out of this damm cold up here AH……LOL That 57 is a nice find for sure. Looks like you have some good projects underway there by looking at the photos provided. Good Luck
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-01-12 1:28 PM (#531165 - in reply to #531159)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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There seems to be some question on firewall color .... ?

Remember, the body shell was painted a single base color with two-toning
overlaid on that base. This was done off-site and delivered as such to the
assembly line to be built as ordered. It was on the assembly line that other
colored inner fenders and radiator supports came into play ... this is because
they were bolt-on parts, and situations varied as to what colors those were
painted .... different years, assembly plants, suppliers, etc.

But to the point, the firewall should always match the base body color of the
car, so a black car with white roof and sweep would have a black firewall. An
Autumn Rust car with charcoal roof and sweep would have an Autumn Rust
firewall. Were the latter car a 57 DeSoto, and built in Detroit, the inner fenders
and radiator support woulf be grey. If the same car were built in L.A. they'd be
P&A Black.

Clear as mud ?

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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-12 2:50 PM (#531169 - in reply to #531155)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Billy: All the molding is good except for the right lower door molding. I need to find a replacement for that one. This car has no motor, but the valve covers were originally silver and the air cleaner black. The spark plug covers are black too. Ebay is the best source for them and there is a company on there that reproduces them for $90, or you can get used ones too. When you get a chance, post up a picture of your interior on your thread. It would be good to see what it looks like.

Glen: Sure, come on over! Probably not a good time right now though. It has been non-stop rain here for the last 3 weeks or so. Pretty unusual for this place.

Doc: Yes, the firewall is obviously body color. The question was about the inner fenders. Being sold in LA, if the trunk is gray, would you think the inner fenders would be gray too or could it be black? There is almost no paint left on the inner fenders, but I can do some investigating once this rain stops so I can get some time to work on it. Although, yesterday, I did get time to remove the hood and weld it up at the hinge area so that I could open and close it without bending it... just before it started raining again.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-01-12 2:53 PM
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FINS!
Posted 2017-01-12 6:33 PM (#531189 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: RE: '57 New Yorker Coupe


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Wow, all the brown areas were unpainted?! That's crazy, it does explain why these rusted out so early! You have a great project here, these cars are gorgeous and tough to find. I've looked for one for years, they simply just aren't out there. Almost had me believing the Cummings diesel idea I've seen that done once or twice.....
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billy
Posted 2017-01-16 11:49 AM (#531478 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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As you all can see the interior needs some work,,,but that's this year's project....car is covered up in the garrage here in upstate NY...19 degrees outside...come on Spring....
billy



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-01-16 3:58 PM (#531489 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: RE: '57 New Yorker Coupe


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Nathan, when you remove the inner fenders from the fenders I think you will see that there was no paint on the inner ones. These cars were assembled with unpainted front sheet metal. The only paint that got there was after assembly and just what the spray guns could reach. All fasteners and those rubber dams were painted over.

Certainly not the way any of us would restore one!

Greg
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-01-16 9:20 PM (#531512 - in reply to #531169)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Powerflite - 2017-01-13 11:50 AM
Doc: Yes, the firewall is obviously body color. The question was about the inner fenders. Being sold in LA, if the trunk is gray, would you think the inner fenders would be gray too or could it be black? There is almost no paint left on the inner fenders, but I can do some investigating once this rain stops so I can get some time to work on it. Although, yesterday, I did get time to remove the hood and weld it up at the hinge area so that I could open and close it without bending it... just before it started raining again. :(


===================================================

I still have the nose clip from my L.A.-built NY'er coupe. The inner fenders
and radiator support are P&A Black. This was a well-kept, 80,000 mile car
before some guy decided to build a drag car out of it, losing interest before
the car was beyond saving.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-01-16 10:14 PM (#531522 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe


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turn your Desoto into a ny'er this year... flip it back and forth

I have a "alternate" front end for my 300C... I have a spare 57 ny front clip. I guess I can tape over the 300C emblem on the quarters...
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-18 1:43 AM (#531635 - in reply to #531522)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Thanks for the interior pics Bill. I can see the original green color on parts of the fabric. These interiors were great looking, when new. Looks like your car has the same problem that mine does - power windows. It's gonna take quite a bit of work to get my windows to roll up and down. I got a little bit of time to work on the car today and managed to get the doors open. So I fixed the door handles on the inside and outside so they all operate now. I also tore off the deteriorated outer seat cover on the front seat top to reveal what's left of the original fabric. That's a pretty neat pattern & combo. I will really like it when it's done. The only paint left on the inner fenders & radiator frame is black. So it was probably P&A black like Doc says, or just overspray from the body paint. Either way, it looks like I am going to paint them black.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-01-18 1:51 AM




(026NYFabric.jpg)



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billy
Posted 2017-01-18 11:57 AM (#531659 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Powerflite,
That is a pretty cool pattern on the seat...I see you have the same problem as my front seat,,,turning into saw dust....I'm hoping to work on interior this spring...believe it or not, all my power windows work...they don't all go back up from the drivers master switch, but they all go down from there...sometimes i have to climb over to the individual window and put it back up from there...there is a guy on this site who is 3D printing power window parts when you get that far......the power seat has issues but does groan and move....fun fun fun,,,always something to do with these cars...
billy
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-23 12:37 PM (#532116 - in reply to #531659)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Location: So. California
Yes Bill, the seat foam self destructs whenever you touch it. I just cleared out most of it to keep it from littering the floor.

I got a whole day on Saturday without rain so that I was able to clean up the floors. Looks like it needs a patch in just this left rear part where water has collected over the years. The trunk floor is about the same. The rear trunk extension looked amazingly good until I put a wire wheel to it and it started to develop holes. So that was a little disappointing, but somewhat expected. Generally I would repair the panel before painting it but it was about to get another 2-3 days of rain so I had to protect it right away after I cleared off all the surface rust.



(57NYFloor.jpg)



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Chrispy
Posted 2017-01-23 3:08 PM (#532135 - in reply to #531659)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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billy - 2017-01-18 9:57 AM

Powerflite,
That is a pretty cool pattern on the seat...I see you have the same problem as my front seat,,,turning into saw dust....I'm hoping to work on interior this spring...believe it or not, all my power windows work...they don't all go back up from the drivers master switch, but they all go down from there...sometimes i have to climb over to the individual window and put it back up from there...there is a guy on this site who is 3D printing power window parts when you get that far......the power seat has issues but does groan and move....fun fun fun,,,always something to do with these cars...
billy


Have you pulled it out and cleaned/lubed everything? ancient grease will do that and add significantly to the load the motor/trans see in the seat assembly.
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billy
Posted 2017-01-25 11:59 AM (#532300 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Location: upstate new york
Chrispy,
I have not dissected the power windows or power seat issues yet....all work to some extent....hopefully you are right and all it will need is a good cleaning and lube...thanks for the info...
billy
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-01-25 3:56 PM (#532324 - in reply to #531522)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Location: Parts Unknown
mikes2nd - 2017-01-17 7:14 PM

turn your Desoto into a ny'er this year... flip it back and forth

I have a "alternate" front end for my 300C... I have a spare 57 ny front clip. I guess I can tape over the 300C emblem on the quarters...


========================================

I think DeSoto SMOKES Chrysler for design in most cases
throughout the Forward Look years. As good as Chrysler might
have been, DeSoto was just that much better. It's why I am
"Doctor DeSoto" and not "Captain Chrysler" !
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billy
Posted 2017-01-26 11:49 AM (#532386 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Posts: 200
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Location: upstate new york
hey Doc,,,what are you smoking??? They're basically the same car aren't they????
billy
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-01-26 12:15 PM (#532391 - in reply to #532386)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe


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billy - 2017-01-26 11:49 AM hey Doc,,,what are you smoking??? They're basically the same car aren't they???? billy

them's fighting words!!!

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billy
Posted 2017-01-26 12:29 PM (#532395 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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I thought i might get a rise out of somebody......
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-01-26 1:10 PM (#532399 - in reply to #532395)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Location: Parts Unknown
Hehehehe ! .... close enough that the 300 Club guys told me
to use my NY'er coupe and Fireflite convertible as parts cars for
a 300 project !
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-01-26 4:02 PM (#532414 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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DeSotos rule!

OK, I must clarify this - perhaps not the '61s but none of the '61s tripped my trigger in comparison to the '60s. Imperial would be the only exception in my opinion.


Edited by Viper Guy 2017-01-26 4:10 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-26 4:06 PM (#532415 - in reply to #532414)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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I usually prefer the look of Chrysler over the Desoto. Chrysler is only beat by DeSoto in '58 and '59. The rest, Chrysler wins.
Favorite design:

'55: 1. Chrysler 300 & Imperial 2. DeSoto
'56: 1. Plymouth 2. Tossup 300B,I,D
'57: 1. Chrysler (any, except 300) 2. Tossup Ds,D,P
'58: 1. DeSoto 2. Chrysler New Yorker & Dodge Regal Lancer (except remove those bumper teeth!)
'59: 1. Dodge 2. Plymouth
'60: 1. Chrysler 2. Dodge Polara
'61: 1. Dodge 2. Chrysler

My Score: Chrysler 4 1/3, Dodge 3 2/3, Desoto 2 1/3, Plymouth 2 1/3, Imperial 5/6
All-time favorite cars: '60 Chrysler, '57 Chrysler, '58 Desoto, '60 Polara.... Even if I arranged it this way, Chrysler would still win.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-01-29 1:30 AM (#532573 - in reply to #532415)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



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Location: Parts Unknown
In my early days of Forward Look cars, I had a 57 NY'er coupe and
my brother had a 60 Fireflite coupe. From Day One, the response he
got when he told people he had a DeSoto was 1000x more "deer-in-
the-headlights than saying I owned a Chrysler. THAT was the first bit
that tipped me towards being a DeSoto fan. When I found a few 57-
58 DeSotos, as much as I liked the NY'er (and I still find it a top shelf
FL design), the details like bumper-ported exhaust, the stacked tail lights
poking out of the chromed housings, the more exuberant sidetrim, and
the instrument cluster (don't care for those round pods on the Chrysler)
just sold me. I had to have a 57 Adventurer convertible ! But the being
stuck on go-fast and fancy wore off, and I came to like the slightly refined
look of the 58's better. The wedge was also a swaying factor. So, 58
Fireflite it was. There are a lot of kick-ass Forward Look cars, but the
58 Fireflite is the car for me.
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57desoto
Posted 2017-01-29 6:36 AM (#532575 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



Expert

Posts: 1311
1000100100100
Location: New Castle PA
Sorry I'm late to this party, but for what it's worth, THIS PAGE (http://www.houstonmopars.org/specs/moparmotorpaint.jpg) says that a 1957 Chrysler should have inner fenders painted body color. It's a bit hard to read with all the "exceptions" and the phrasing sucks, PLUS I have some other issues with its accuracy. BUT, if you paint the inner fenders body color and anyone argues, at least you can point to this page to place the blame!
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2017-01-29 8:17 AM (#532578 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: RE: '57 New Yorker Coupe



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1092
1000252525
Location: ZH, Switzerland

When I compare the 56 Chrysler and 56 De Soto, IMHO both are looking very attractive. But the dashboard of the 56 De Soto is ways more sportive and attractive to me than the Chrysler/Imperial - even though the Chrysler dashboard is looking very nice as well. I don't really know but I assume the  Chrysler/Imperial had a better base equipmemt than the De Soto.

Happy Restoring!

Dieter

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-01-29 1:06 PM (#532597 - in reply to #532575)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



500050005000500010005001001001002525
Location: Parts Unknown
57desoto - 2017-01-30 3:36 AM

Sorry I'm late to this party, but for what it's worth, THIS PAGE (http://www.houstonmopars.org/specs/moparmotorpaint.jpg) says that a 1957 Chrysler should have inner fenders painted body color. It's a bit hard to read with all the "exceptions" and the phrasing sucks, PLUS I have some other issues with its accuracy. BUT, if you paint the inner fenders body color and anyone argues, at least you can point to this page to place the blame!


===============================

This may be true of Detroit-built cars, but L.A.-built cars got P&A Black.
I believe this was true for all makes that were built in L.A. including
DeSoto.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-02-20 8:24 PM (#534419 - in reply to #532116)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



Expert

Posts: 3384
20001000100100100252525
Location: So. California
I took advantage of a rainy day and pounded out the big dent in the passenger inner fender, but I've got a dozen extra holes to weld in there as well. I also disassembled the engine bay and cleaned everything down. Getting ready to do the prep work for paint. I welded in the two large holes in the firewall that were made for the aftermarket A/C back when I was working on the floor. They installed them too low, near the passenger's feet so I'm not keeping them like that. I also washed the outside of the car so it isn't so filthy. I need to get to work on the motor now.



(Clean Firewall.jpg)



(Clean 57NY.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Clean Firewall.jpg (199KB - 38 downloads)
Attachments Clean 57NY.jpg (212KB - 34 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-02-20 8:59 PM (#534422 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe


Expert

Posts: 2103
2000100
car is pretty clean now.
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Chrome58
Posted 2017-02-21 1:27 AM (#534431 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1155
10001002525
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels
Nice car and nice project.
Keep up the good work
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-02-22 12:42 AM (#534493 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: RE: '57 New Yorker Coupe



Expert

Posts: 1560
10005002525
Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada
Needs some Canadian rust...

Looking good! At least you are progressing faster than I am...
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billy
Posted 2017-02-22 11:57 AM (#534508 - in reply to #529650)
Subject: Re: '57 New Yorker Coupe



Veteran

Posts: 200
100100
Location: upstate new york
Looks good...keep showing us pics....is that the oil filter access trap door I see on the passenger side??? Mine has similiar..
billy
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