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Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General Discussion | Message format |
Mike McCandless |
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Expert Posts: 1886 | I'd love for this site to have more traffic and sharing of information. While the list serve is ok, a forum provides so many benefits that a list serve can not. What are the thoughts on inviting the 300 club members to post here, understanding some of the years fall out of the specific 55-61 area. These groups, imperial/forwardlook/desoto keep getting smaller. If we could gain a focus at one place, it would be a HUGE help for the future generations that want to restore these cars. There is a weath of information sitting in people's heads and we need to document it. Thoughts? | ||
ronbo97 |
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Expert Posts: 4034 Location: Connecticut | Mike - Since this site is dedicated to FL cars, a better solution would be to follow what the Desoto Club has done, which is to use forums software provided by GoDaddy, which is the club website's host. Hosting a no-frills, low traffic site does not cost much on GoDaddy. Tim Bowers of Stellar Restorations (620-489-6495) is the webmaster for the site. Ron | ||
BigBlockMopar |
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Expert Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands | I'm all for it. The costs of running a site or running are negligible. I've hosted a dedicated Chrysler 300 forum some time back but it never got much 'traction' so I pulled the plug after a while. | ||
Mike McCandless |
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Expert Posts: 1886 | Why would we not endorse them being here? We're all car people, we all love cars. These cars share a tremendous amount of hardware. Each of these area's is a niche. Forward look, desoto, 300 and imperials. With them all being separate, they'll each die off. I'm sure I'm not the only person who owns a car that fits into more than 1 of these buckets. Why can't a subforum be created to allow them to post. If you don't want to "see" that stuff, don't go to that section. The main focus of this site, by default would always be the forward look years. We should be focusing on growing the hobby, not segregating it. This is one of the big reasons these cars lose interest to the younger generations. There is no central point to learn and enjoy them. You have to go to multiple spots, that get very little traffic, which causes it to fall of your radar. The goal should be to bring people to a home and let people explore from there. All these restrictions do is run people off and alienate other owners. That's the LAST thing we should be trying to do as the lovers of these rare and unique cars. | ||
ttotired |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8443 Location: Perth Australia | I don't really care, but since its an opinion question This is a site created to cater for the forwardlook years of mopar. If you allow cars outside this era into the general discussion area it no longer caters for the forwardlook specifically and therefor you might as well call it mopar.net and also allow the PT cruiser, Jeep ect mob to post their stuff on the general discussion page. This is similar to the discussion a while ago about wether different makes or years of cars should be allowed into "Members rides", EG I have a 58 Buick as well. It fits the era but not the breed. Simply put, if the vehicle is mopar and between 55 to 61 it fits this page, if not, it don't | ||
Mike McCandless |
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Expert Posts: 1886 | There is a huge difference in letting in a PT Cruiser, a buick or a 62 imperial post. I think this is why we see little participation at events like Carlisle. Everyone wants to be in their own camp, when we're all on the same team. | ||
mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6487 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | We can always use the basement for the odd cars. No one complains if the odd ford or 1974 fury shows up there. Any off year 300/imperial/facel vega (uses alot of our parts), aussie royals, Ghias, Gran Torisimos, Turbine cars would be cool. Jeep, fiat, amc/rambler is pushing it. Marc. | ||
51coronet |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 360 | I like the idea of a central knowledgebase and you are correct about other sites. They don't get much traffic and don't get updated very often. I also feel like the forward look went beyond 61 in some makes and models. Anyway I am not sure how to propose a solution to the apparent problem. Some folks here are grouchy farts and others are genuine car guys that are into other makes and models. Before I go off into a tangent yes I think we should have some areas that are a bit more specific to a breed of car such as Imperials since they didn't share a whole lot of anything with the others. A 300 section maybe? Anything that makes this place a central base for knowledge will benefit us all. | ||
ronbo97 |
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Expert Posts: 4034 Location: Connecticut | The AACA website has forums where you can post about any make and model. I think that's what you're looking for. This site is for FL cars. Ron | ||
RUSTORICHES |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 494 Location: Alberta | "The Forward Look"… Is The Forward Look Site. I've only been around this site for about 4 years now and have learned quite a bit about the car itself [everyday i a pick up bits of not only helpful and informative tips also cost and time saving ideas].All these things are compiled by fellow members on a daily bases which have been shared by the members here.I have been on a couple other sites and the point mentioned prior non frequent updates make for a poor from of social media.My point is although Exner was involved in designing cars since the mid thirties [Pontiac] the forties till the early fifties [Studebaker] and recognized for his contributions in design. Virgil's unique character and visions all came together at Chrysler and there the stage was set for the Forward Look some models more economical right up to the Imperial which claimed not to be a Chrysler all shared parts across the board.So economics form the Status Symbols and thusly We've experienced the Imperial Club,the300 Club, the Desoto Club and of coarse last but not least the Forward Look So we've been brought together by one visionary car designer. The Forward Look exemplifies the hard working man, who was on the assembly lines, the race track and cruisin' for chicks.Plain and simple I like what we have here and the way we have it."Destinction Should Be Recognized" we all earned it Edited by RUSTORICHES 2016-12-13 9:53 PM | ||
Viper Guy |
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Expert Posts: 2002 Location: Branson, MO | I'm a member of the DeSoto Club (NDC) as well as this FL network. I like both but the FL is much more active and informative mainly because all FL MoPars have things in common with each other in many ways. There have been discussions about including some '62 and '63 models (Dodge 880 and Chryslers for instance) because some share body shells with '60 and '61 models. The concences was that this network will be dedicated to '55 through '61 MoPars including Valiants, Lancers, Imperials, 300s and the rest. It was pretty much put to rest that this is the way it will stay and I personally am accepting it, participating with the FL community, and definitely enjoying it. For those that choose to deviate there are topics within that accommodate. | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13042 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | mstrug - 2016-12-14 12:29 AM We can always use the basement for the odd cars. No one complains if the odd ford or 1974 fury shows up there. Any off year 300/imperial/facel vega (uses alot of our parts), aussie royals, Ghias, Gran Torisimos, Turbine cars would be cool. Jeep, fiat, amc/rambler is pushing it. Marc. I agree - the neither region is for off topic threads and I doubt that we would have any complaints if members posts threads of non-FL cars and even non-Mopar cars there. What about the 300 forum, that site should cover all the 300's and also the Hursts? | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9605 Location: So. Cal | It is all about relevancy. If it isn't relevant, it shouldn't be here. For that reason, I wouldn't mind including some of the '62-'63 C-bodies, because they are at least relevant to the forward look to a large degree. Along the same line of reasoning, the '60-'61 A-bodies really aren't very relevant on this site. They are better served at specific A-body forums such as www.forAbodiesonly.com. These early A-bodies really were the beginning of the muscle car era, but with smaller muscles . However, I don't mind that we stick with the firm year span instead because it's a pretty good delineation. But including a vast array of other cars based on a name badge really wouldn't fit well here. Edited by Powerflite 2016-12-14 3:19 AM | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i think fearless just might agree with 62 -----------------------------------------------------later | ||
60 Imp |
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Location: North Australia | RUSTORICHES - 2016-12-14 11:48 AM "The Forward Look"… Is The Forward Look Site. I've only been around this site for about 4 years now and have learned quite a bit about the car itself [everyday i a pick up bits of not only helpful and informative tips also cost and time saving ideas].All these things are compiled by fellow members on a daily bases which have been shared by the members here.I have been on a couple other sites and the point mentioned prior non frequent updates make for a poor from of social media.My point is although Exner was involved in designing cars since the mid thirties [Pontiac] the forties till the early fifties [Studebaker] and recognized for his contributions in design. Virgil's unique character and visions all came together at Chrysler and there the stage was set for the Forward Look some models more economical right up to the Imperial which claimed not to be a Chrysler all shared parts across the board.So economics form the Status Symbols and thusly We've experienced the Imperial Club,the300 Club, the Desoto Club and of coarse last but not least the Forward Look So we've been brought together by one visionary car designer. The Forward Look exemplifies the hard working man, who was on the assembly lines, the race track and cruisin' for chicks.Plain and simple I like what we have here and the way we have it."Destinction Should Be Recognized" we all earned it Glen, you have made some valid points in your post in my opinion. I think we think alike and have had similar values. I have been lurking around this website since '02 and consider myself a FNG still. I could not have done what I did with my own FL car (just one, but THE one for me!) without the help of a few blokes on here ( most gone now) and access to the historical data. I also relied heavily on the Online Imperial Club for info and contacts in the US. The OIC has a lot of valuable info, as do the 300 clubs sites. For a long time now I have been a regular visitor and contributor to this website. The Forward Look.net is my favorite time killer by far. Lots of the stuff I read on here blows me away. I also recon the Virgil Exner designed Chrysler Corporation cars deserve this dedicated category, By that I mean what a lot of people call the FL network. The diversity of the cars and the dedication of the contributors makes this site a unique resource and entertainment. Some cool SH!T I say. Steve. | ||
Mike McCandless |
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Expert Posts: 1886 | It was worth a shot. I figured it was worth asking. Incredibly disappointing to me. | ||
firedome |
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Expert Posts: 3153 Location: NY & VT | There's plenty of sites for other Mopars and other cars in general. Keep it '55 to '61 FL only. | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13042 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Mike McCandless - 2016-12-14 3:01 PM It was worth a shot. I figured it was worth asking. Incredibly disappointing to me. I'm sure that 300 letter car owners frequently visit this forum and anyone can register as a member Mike. I'm also sure that if, let's say a guy with a 300 J posts a question in the neither region, he will get some advices and help as the forum members are very helpful. We had similar discussions before but the majority wants a strictly FL-forum. | ||
di_ch_NY56 |
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Expert Posts: 1527 Location: ZH, Switzerland | The only problem I see is that the Chrysler 300 Letter club covers all Letter cars including the 1962 Chrysler 300H, the 1963 Chrysler 300J, the 1964 Chrysler 300K, the 1965 Chrysler 300L and the 1970 Chrysler Hurst 300. Because we host owners and friends of 1955 - 1961 MoPar cars we cannot host all members of the Chrysler 300 Club International forum at the Yahoo forum base. I fully understand, that owners and friends of newer Letters than 1961 are not completely happy with the solution to move over to our forum. The reason - as far as I understand - is because the yahoo forum doesn't allow to attach pictures nor there is a market place like in our beloved forum.
Happy Restoring! Dieter
BTW: now I'm in the "good" situation, that Yahoo tells me, my email address to log in is unknown. Good luck I'm here as well. One more reason to leave the Yahoo base system (;-) Sven: thanks a lot for your advice (neither region). Is it possible to add one more sub category below neither region, e.g. Letter cars? Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-12-14 11:14 AM | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13042 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes Dieter, it's possible far as I understand, but the creation of any regions and sub-forums must be done by the administrator. We could have a poll for see if the members would approve this. A word of warning though - the sewer could be closed and if so, any sub-forum would go as well. Yet another solution might be to have a region for special interest cars, like the Ghias and for instance the 300 letter cars after 61. The more I think about it, the more I like that solution!!?? It would require a poll first of all, if the outcome is positive, then we could Contact Dave and ask for his approval. It might require a moderator as well for the "Special interest region".............. | ||
Rebels-59 |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Mike McCandless - 2016-12-14 2:01 PM It was worth a shot. I figured it was worth asking. Incredibly disappointing to me. Mike , the only person who really has a say to this would be Dave himself.. But similar things have been suggested over the years and Dave always goes with 55-61 forwardlook , what this |Forum is designed for,, Although he has recently added 1962 to the Forwardlook Facebook page.. My feeling is he would suggest there are other forums out there better to merge with,, Unless you suggested a Sub Forum here for 55-62 Letter cars only.. Clive . | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I like Mike's idea, but would break it out to special catagories for 62-and-later and perhaps others ? The trick here is not turning the place into a free-for-all of what some see as relevant, that others do not. Personally, I chop the whole subject off with Exner's comment about plucked chickens. Anything post-1961 is not of interest, even if I do recognize there are some commonalities. Others think even Imperials up to 66 have enough in common to be a party to the party. Another issue I have is personalities. I have experienced a LOT of looking down the nose from the 300 crowd in years past. They were a snooty and self-inducing elite crowd and viewed pretty much anyone interested in anything BUT 300's as uneducated and uncultured riff-raff. That was always hard to work with, and while acceptance of "lesser" makes has become more widespread, I have my doubts the uppity culture has been snuffed out. This would bring all sorts of discontent to the Forward Look site. It would be naive to press forward with any changes without considering the potential conflicts that may arise and whether any of these changes would be worth the risk of wrecking what exists now. | ||
Mike McCandless |
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Expert Posts: 1886 | I'm trying to figure out the harm in having sub forums for them. If it doesn't interest you, don't read or pay attention to it. It's about growing the hobby and protecting these cars long term for future generations. | ||
di_ch_NY56 |
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Expert Posts: 1527 Location: ZH, Switzerland | Doctor DeSoto - 2016-12-13 6:56 PM I like Mike's idea, but would break it out to special catagories for 62-and-later and perhaps others ? The trick here is not turning the place into a free-for-all of what some see as relevant, that others do not. Personally, I chop the whole subject off with Exner's comment about plucked chickens. Anything post-1961 is not of interest, even if I do recognize there are some commonalities. Others think even Imperials up to 66 have enough in common to be a party to the party. Another issue I have is personalities. I have experienced a LOT of looking down the nose from the 300 crowd in years past. They were a snooty and self-inducing elite crowd and viewed pretty much anyone interested in anything BUT 300's as uneducated and uncultured riff-raff. That was always hard to work with, and while acceptance of "lesser" makes has become more widespread, I have my doubts the uppity culture has been snuffed out. This would bring all sorts of discontent to the Forward Look site. It would be naive to press forward with any changes without considering the potential conflicts that may arise and whether any of these changes would be worth the risk of wrecking what exists now. Anybody is free to visit our forum (Exner time span, but most people know that the Chryslers up to 1964 had the same windshield frame, Exner designed) as a visitor. I didn't know about what you did experience. Because I'm flooded with messages from the yahoo-forum (Chrysler 300 Letter International Club) in my mailbox from people who appreciate our forum as lively and full of useful informations (even the market place like cars for sale parts for sale, seeking parts). But as a visitor they cannot participate, neither an answer to a thread nor a PM to a forum member. For me it's very important to keep the forum guidelines about how we deal with each other. If anybody would start with that behavior ("They were a snooty and self-inducing elite crowd and viewed pretty much anyone interested in anything BUT 300's as uneducated and uncultured riff-raff.") he or she should be banned immediately. Of course I understand the request from Imperial people as well. But for sure we should not open the forum for other brands (like Ford, Chevrolet or even muscle car area - even this are MoPars as well). Happy Restoring! Dieter | ||
mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6487 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | I WOULD LOVE TO TAKE A 1959 300 OR IMPERIAL AND TURN IT INTO A PICKUP! | ||
Mike McCandless |
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Expert Posts: 1886 | Maybe I'm biased because I'm tired of getting 400 emails from list serves | ||
ruchaven |
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Expert Posts: 1231 Location: York County, PA | Maybe I'm wrong, but I never noticed any of the 300 owners coming over to the tent at Carlisle even though they were almost next to us. Is there any interest from the 300 owners about this forum? I have empathy for preserving as many Mopars as possible, but many years ago when I asked the 300 owner group a question about a '60 Dodge with a 318 if it could have a powerpak as an option. I got nowhere. I would suggest to add a section of quick links for reference to other mopar related websites which may prove useful for the FL members. | ||
Ev's62Chrysler |
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Veteran Posts: 210 Location: Suwanee, GA | Mike, I like your idea, not necessarily for just the 300 group, but moving some "distance" beyond 55-61. I’m an “outsider” (62 New Yorker owner) and relatively new to this whole Forward Look thing. I inherited my wagon last year, and since then it’s been fun, interesting, challenging, and maybe a little frustrating at times too getting it roadworthy, and this site by far has been the most beneficial for information, stories, photos, and so forth. It’s very active, nicely formatted, and easily navigable, especially as compared to a couple of other related sites I’ve visited. As an owner of a 62 I believe I fit better on this forum than any other I’ve encountered. It goes without saying though that I wouldn’t mind seeing more posts relevant to 62 Chryslers. Judging by others’ posts, I don’t think I’m alone. Several members here, on more than one occasion, have expressed their opposition to anything outside of FL, and so be it, I understand. I come here almost daily, and though I infrequently post, I’ll continue to post when I feel the urge or until I’ve been made to feel as a non-FL owner unwelcome (which has never been the case). I don’t feel I have a dog in this fight, but it wouldn’t bother me if there was to be a 62 category, even if buried in some sub-section of the forum. For the record I did store my brother-in-law’s 57 Dodge Coronet in my garage for a couple of months, and even drove it a few times – if that carries any weight! Good luck, Robert | ||
NicksGarage |
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Expert Posts: 1223 Location: Ramona, CA | Mike, I think the 2 300 clubs need to get together and build a joint forum. But reading the discussions on the list server it seems that many are in the "we never want to change" camp and it may be hard to get people to go to one. It sure would be much easier to find info than the e-mail system. If I had more time I'd start one myself. I have a small forum for a vintage motorhome and it's not that hard to set up but still takes work to maintain. www.hallgtc.com/forum. And you'd have to block out the modern 300 owners. I think the feeling here that this is not the right place for the 300 owners is very appropriate. It's hard to keep a pure forum going. Although I do feel bad for the near forward look people. | ||
Mike McCandless |
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Expert Posts: 1886 | Each of these groups doesn't want to change. I went to the desoto forum, all 3 people were there not posting. The imperial and 300 club rely on list serve. If it wasn't for this website, there is NO way I'd have the collection I do now. No way I'd have the knowledge I do now, which is still very limited. Being able to easily look back through Neil's post who passed away this year is a huge help. Bringing up old threads starts new conversations. TO be fair, I grew up in a message board era, so it's what I'm used to. I also have a significant email load. I will always be biased to forums, but understand people like what they like. It was just a thought. Each club has their little niche's and I understand that. Certain members of the 300 club despise for father for putting a 5.7 in his 300G. I get it. Doesn't justify the words I've heard spoken about him and the car. Few know what I look like and I'm far younger than most expect. I can hang around my cars and people have zero clue they're mine. At Carlisle I brought 3 letters: A 1 of 3 60F, a 1 of 4 300C and rare Cinnamon 300G. Almost nobody from the 300 club even spoke to me and that's ok. Every car club has the range of members. I just wish the various groups were more unified. It stinks to go to one of the largest chrysler events in the country, Carlisle and forward look years total about 1% of the car count. Anything to bring the community together, I'm all for. I love these cars! | ||
BigBlockMopar |
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Expert Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands | Unfortunatly, I've learned that a lot of people aren't very much unlike dinosaurs. They just won't change their habits and evade most tings they don't (want to) know about. | ||
Handygun |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1117 Location: STL, MO | I have no issues letting letter cars to L in and framed Imperials. | ||
ruchaven |
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Expert Posts: 1231 Location: York County, PA | While I agree this forum should be for FLs only, I do not see any harm of adding another category "Miscellaneous Mopars" that can only be read and used by registered FL forum members. That way you can minimize the abuse from outsiders. Mike has a point of trying to keep the passion of restoration all of these cars alive, and let's face it - there are a lot of us here who own old Mopars from various eras, just ask Mike's father. Is there anyone here who would question Herb's passion for fixin' these rides? Most of us wouldn't mind freely offering our two cents worth of expertise long as it not interfering with the main reason for this forum. I think the biggest objection would be about online peeing contests that contribute nothing to getting another Mopar on the road. Self discipline plus online manners equals forum freedom. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Mike, Your observations of the 300 crew suggest to me that nothing has changed amongst that crew. Until you kiss the ring and bow before the almighty ruling party, you are scum. Or at least unworthy of inclusion in any conversation or "community". 35 years ago I was pretty much "alone in the forest" when it came to finned Mopars, except for the 300 Club that had pretty much been a functioning body since these couple-year-old cars began to come onto the used car market. The guys that loved them were dyed-in-the-wool fans and saw the letter cars as an exotic breed, a cut above all others. And to be fair, I can understand their sentiments. But it came with a down side. As I was trying to feel my way around for networking tech intel and parts for my 57 NY'er coupe, I stumbled across the Portland 300 Club and got it with both barrels. A few guys directed me to Merle Wolfer, a "weirdo" amongst their bunch (he liked other fin era Mopars besides 300's), but the majority were condescending pr!cks and treated anyone with a non-300 interest like we might look down our nose at the 57 Chevy crowd. As I have told on this forum many times, members of this group told me in all seriousness that I should use my NY'er for parts and restore a 300. When I suggested I liked the NY'er trim, interior, and colors better than the 300's, they became indignant and treated me as if I was a child molester. They had the same reception to my Adventurer convertible. On some level, I can understand their thinking that a NY'er might be just a little too ordinary for their high falootin' performance car ethic, but an Adventurer convertible ? Sorry, but to this Forward Look guy, no 300 exists that trumps a 57-58 Adventurer convertible. Equal, yes. But don't look down your snotty nose at me and my DeSoto. It just ain't gonna play that way. And as a result, I never had another thing to do with that crew, besides Merle. He was a good guy. I tell ya, .... if anyone from the 300 crew ever tells you to chop up that 59 NY'er and build an E out of it, I will piss my pants laughing ! And I fully would expect one of these guys to do it too ! I never played well with arrogant d!ckheads, and have come to prefer my status as someone of scum, owning the "wrong" cars, and generally going against the grain and competitive culture that was and is the 300 scene. I am sure there are plenty of good people with 300's, but lack of self-policing by some has given all of them a reputation. | ||
Sonoramic60 |
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Expert Posts: 1287 | Doc -- And during this season of "Peace on earth and goodwill towards men," I wish you a Merry Christmas. Joe Godec | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Doctor DeSoto - 2016-12-29 9:57 PM Mike, Your observations of the 300 crew suggest to me that nothing has changed amongst that crew. Until you kiss the ring and bow before the almighty ruling party, you are scum. Or at least unworthy of inclusion in any conversation or "community". 35 years ago I was pretty much "alone in the forest" when it came to finned Mopars, except for the 300 Club that had pretty much been a functioning body since these couple-year-old cars began to come onto the used car market. The guys that loved them were dyed-in-the-wool fans and saw the letter cars as an exotic breed, a cut above all others. And to be fair, I can understand their sentiments. But it came with a down side. As I was trying to feel my way around for networking tech intel and parts for my 57 NY'er coupe, I stumbled across the Portland 300 Club and got it with both barrels. A few guys directed me to Merle Wolfer, a "weirdo" amongst their bunch (he liked other fin era Mopars besides 300's), but the majority were condescending pr!cks and treated anyone with a non-300 interest like we might look down our nose at the 57 Chevy crowd. As I have told on this forum many times, members of this group told me in all seriousness that I should use my NY'er for parts and restore a 300. When I suggested I liked the NY'er trim, interior, and colors better than the 300's, they became indignant and treated me as if I was a child molester. They had the same reception to my Adventurer convertible. On some level, I can understand their thinking that a NY'er might be just a little too ordinary for their high falootin' performance car ethic, but an Adventurer convertible ? Sorry, but to this Forward Look guy, no 300 exists that trumps a 57-58 Adventurer convertible. Equal, yes. But don't look down your snotty nose at me and my DeSoto. It just ain't gonna play that way. And as a result, I never had another thing to do with that crew, besides Merle. He was a good guy. I tell ya, .... if anyone from the 300 crew ever tells you to chop up that 59 NY'er and build an E out of it, I will piss my pants laughing ! And I fully would expect one of these guys to do it too ! I never played well with arrogant d!ckheads, and have come to prefer my status as someone of scum, owning the "wrong" cars, and generally going against the grain and competitive culture that was and is the 300 scene. I am sure there are plenty of good people with 300's, but lack of self-policing by some has given all of them a reputation. How could ANYONE not warmly embrace a jerk like this!!!??? And, he calls himself a DOCTOR!!! Greg | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Sheesh, Greg ... I guess you've never been treated poorly ? Must have lived a charmed life. Good on you ! | ||
ruchaven |
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Expert Posts: 1231 Location: York County, PA | I agree with Doc. If there is a problem to be identified, I think one of the symptoms would be the lack of honesty among any group of individuals with a common interest. You are not going to get away with eliminating the "top dog" mentality. My peeve is seeing a concourse quality car owned by someone whose personality is as shallow as an oil drain pan. I don't want to waste time with him, I want to talk with the person doing the work!! Unfortunately money this fuels this business (look at BJ auctions), but happily it is not the total equation. Since it wasn't my first rodeo with old cars, years ago I told Harry when he wanted his Phoenix you have two routes to achieve that goal and neither one is easy. And then, you have to stick with it. Either save the money needed to buy a finished car or build your own. He did neither, and had nothing when he died. Since Harry is now gone, I have been fortunate enough to find a local restorer to weld and paint that '60 Dodge who is not a Mopar man, but whose work on Chrysler products has been on featured display in Building T at Carlisle. He just likes all old cars, period. This best I can do is to support him with the necessary information and materials to get the job done. In return I get the privilege (not the right) to participate in the process to do as much as I can and learn from him. If everything works out between us, I will look forward to working with him on future projects sitting around the house. If it doesn't, then I will have to try something else. I use this as an example to think about where this forum is going. If you don't open any of it up, you may be surprised on what your are missing. | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | Mike McCandless - 2016-12-13 10:38 AM I'd love for this site to have more traffic and sharing of information. While the list serve is ok, a forum provides so many benefits that a list serve can not. What are the thoughts on inviting the 300 club members to post here, understanding some of the years fall out of the specific 55-61 area. These groups, imperial/forwardlook/desoto keep getting smaller. If we could gain a focus at one place, it would be a HUGE help for the future generations that want to restore these cars. There is a weath of information sitting in people's heads and we need to document it. Thoughts? Sounds good to me Mike. There is significant overlap in our interests, that is for sure. I went to a 300 nationals once with my De Soto and they were a very welcoming group. Maybe the moderators could create a letter car area, similar to the regions or VIN decoding, etc.? Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-12-30 12:37 PM | ||
Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9605 Location: So. Cal | Sounds like you found a good builder Claudia. It is good to enjoy the process as well as the results. | ||
finsruskw |
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Expert Posts: 2289 Location: Eastern Iowa | Strange, I've been hanging around here now for a few years and a 39+ year member of the 300 Int'l club and have never had the impression the this site did not already include the 55-61 letter cars. And never had the impression that I was excluded at of the club activities either for that matter and I've driven a pretty scroungy looking 300C to a few meets as well, and also my F which is far from being a professional restoration. I did have someone paint my car though, 31 years ago. if that makes me an elitist, so be it I guess. Everything else I have dome myself for the most part. No trailer queens living at my house, that's for sure. I've even popped into the FL tent a time or two while at Carlisle and even presented some folks there w/a couple 300 Club coffee mugs. As you were..... Edited by finsruskw 2016-12-30 1:44 PM | ||
Chrys 68 |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 673 Location: Malung, SWEDEN | I also thought this forum was for 300 letter cars. Don´t understand at all why some of you look down on these cars and their owners. During my trips in the U.S I have always been treated as a car guy. No problems at all with 300 owners or other Mopar people. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Let me restate the above for easier understanding. I have never dealt with more arrogant and condescending people that SOME of those I encountered in the 300 Club. I also met a few really great club members who saw any period Mopar as interesting. Unfortunately, the elitist attitude seemed to fill the air more strongly than that of the more diversely interested members. Further, I offer some level of understanding for the how and why this attitude might exist, although as all these cars become less commonly seen, I would think the acceptance of people with cars other than 300's would become more prevelant. Mike's comments suggested the attitude is still there, and strong. Could I be wrong ? Yes. But let's get back to the point of the original post, which is to combine forces, so to speak, and invite the 300 Clubs into a more integrated internet community. If there are potential problems with this, I think it prudent to not delude ourselves that bringing them in without proper consideration might very well turn a very good thing (the FL Forums) into something not so good. We would be foolish to not talk this out. Now, I know that any group is the sum of its parts, and not all 300 owners or club members are douchebags. But I will stand by my statement that I met some real wing-ding assclowns, representing the 300 Club in their Portland Swap Meet booth, that I would not welcome into ANY group I felt worthy of protecting. This was not a one time meeting, but the experience over many. It was not some chance occurrance. I will also submit that there is a level of self-policing that any group needs to do to keep their organization keel down. What I saw in representative booth tenders telling a noobie looking for mentoring that what he had was a piece of sh!t and that no car mattered unless it was a 300 was both unprofessional, but damaging to the hobby by way of any poor bugger that happened to cross their path. I like my hobbies as much for the people as the objects themselves. If the people populating a given hobby are snobby and elitist, I will go somewhere else. But before I do, I think I would do all I could to keep a good situation from being turned into a bad one. That is all I am saying here. Let's be sure of what we are asking for, and what we will do if things go a little sideways. | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | Doctor DeSoto - 2016-12-30 2:18 AM Sheesh, Greg ... I guess you've never been treated poorly ? Must have lived a charmed life. Good on you ! "Treated poorly"? You were the one that collectively called us d!ckheads!! I regard that as poor treatment! Anyway, let's move on. Give us another chance and come to one of our meets. I think you will enjoy it!! With respect to this topic, I always felt welcome at this site within your 55-61 range. Those are the cars that I really like and I love this forum way of dealing with info. Even I can post messages and photos! The 300 club email system is impossible for me to deal with. I desubscribed from the Listserver many months ago. Countless 300 club members already frequent this site. I don't know what it is that people want to change! More than 25 years ago myself and members of our concours judging team wanted to coax, interview or whatever to get some of the older, wiser and certainly more experienced members to document their knowledge. Hey, we tried! It never happened! Today, most of these people are dead! The saga continues!! Mike M, been there,done that and I wish you all the best! Greg | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | LD3 Greg - 2016-12-31 9:23 PM "Treated poorly"? You were the one that collectively called us d!ckheads!! I regard that as poor treatment! My closing comment to that post was: "I am sure there are plenty of good people with 300's, but lack of self-policing by some has given all of them a reputation." Did you miss that ? ===================================== It's OK, Greg. These days, just owning a convertible makes most people assume you are some arrogant d!ckhead. Nevermind if a person had it from the time even the 300 guys would tell you it was only good for parts. I think we all want the same thing here. To make the most of hobby assets. I only offered the personality conflict issue as a consideration for that old situation ... be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. We have a pretty good thing here and the douchebags largely stay at bay. I have no idea what bringing everyone in to sing around the Forward Look campfire might result in, but all angles should be considered before making changes. And as you so experientially relate ... many are here already and the best efforts to bring people together often goes nowhere. No disrespect intended. Just business. | ||
Rebels-59 |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | finsruskw - 2016-12-30 6:39 PM Strange, I've been hanging around here now for a few years and a 39+ year member of the 300 Int'l club and have never had the impression the this site did not already include the 55-61 letter cars. Chrys 68 - 2016-12-30 8:32 PM I also thought this forum was for 300 letter cars. Don´t understand at all why some of you look down on these cars and their owners. During my trips in the U.S I have always been treated as a car guy. No problems at all with 300 owners or other Mopar people. Just to clear this up, as other members also seem confused as well.... Yes this Forum IS for 300 Letter cars and IMPs for 55-61 and always has been... This Topic in question is a discussion for Letter cars OUTSIDE the years of 55-61 ... as noted in the title of the subject thread.. Clive.. . | ||
GaryS |
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Expert Posts: 1207 Location: Ponder, TX | I understand both sides of the discussion, but I think I would prefer not including non-Forward Look cars of any make, year or model. There are just too many 300 variations that do not meet the original concept the engineers and designers had in mind, and it would be impossible to differentiate without pissing off a lot of people. I too have witnessed a degree of haughtiness from 300 letter car owners, but I understand that. If I could choose one car to own, it would be a totally stock ’57 300C, but for various reasons that will never happen…cost being the number one reason. I might even become a little bit haughty. There is nothing wrong with pride in owning something unique, and those who act like real SOBs would act the same way if they didn’t own a classic car, so I won’t condemn all 300 owners. There is nothing more impressive than a rare car that has been kept or restored as close as possible to the way it left the factory, but when you choose a car to restore that has zero aftermarket support, and a very limited supply of solid donor cars available, you have the choice of offering your car as a donor, or modifying and patching what you have so it can again become a driver. I don’t have to tell Chrysler enthusiasts that fact, as we already know from experience. When I began working on my basket-case FL car several years ago, I couldn’t understand the sometimes vehement comments directed at folks who choose to make modifications to their car, but I quickly learned to keep my plans to myself on this forum. I have no desire to poke the bear. That doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate and learn from reading about the trials and tribulations of those seeking originality at any cost. I will have to be content to gather and assemble the less expensive, rusty dregs of my second-choice to fulfill my desire for fins. I don’t have the option of hiring a restoration shop to do the work, so I do nearly everything myself. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have the pleasure of walking into my garage and running my hands over the curves of those graceful fins. I won’t have a twenty thousand dollar paint job, but I’ll enjoy my eight hundred dollar back yard effort, orange-peel, thin spots and all…as long as it’s applied to a unique FL Mopar. When finished, I will have a car despised by purists, but I will know every square inch of it because I did it myself. Some of the modifications will be obvious, while others are hidden or subdued as much as possible, but I don’t think the results would embarrass Exner. I won’t ask to have my car’s pictures posted on this forum, and I don’t resent shunning by anyone who demands originality. Most people would have no clue if it was factory original or not. This is a great forum and a treasure of information, and while I would accept adding the 300s to the model coverage, I wouldn’t promote or encourage it. Edited by GaryS 2016-12-31 9:44 AM | ||
di_ch_NY56 |
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Expert Posts: 1527 Location: ZH, Switzerland | LD3 Greg - 2016-12-30 6:23 AM Doctor DeSoto - 2016-12-30 2:18 AM Anyway, let's move on. Give us another chance and come to one of our meets. I think you will enjoy it!! With respect to this topic, I always felt welcome at this site within your 55-61 range. Those are the cars that I really like and I love this forum way of dealing with info. Even I can post messages and photos! The 300 club email system is impossible for me to deal with. I desubscribed from the Listserver many months ago. Countless 300 club members already frequent this site. I don't know what it is that people want to change! More than 25 years ago myself and members of our concours judging team wanted to coax, interview or whatever to get some of the older, wiser and certainly more experienced members to document their knowledge. Hey, we tried! It never happened! Today, most of these people are dead! The saga continues!! Mike M, been there,done that and I wish you all the best! Greg
I read in the listserver that our forum actually is appreciated because it offers more possibilities than the listserver and is a goldmine for informations. Keep in mind that the information comes most part from "sister" or "brother" cars (remember that ahead and after a e.g. 300F was a Saratoga, Windsor or NY at the mounting line). Every FL car is valuable and I would not destruct a nice NY or Saratoga to build my Letter. But always keep in mind that a "sister" or "brother" car is up to 80 to 90% identical and most problems and issues are similar (even demounting and mounting of the complete body, interior and mechanic) - Of course the adjusting of a crossram dual carb is not easy and needs patience. But once in my live I adjusted a dual double Weber carburetor on an old Alfa Romeo with full aluminum engine... I'll post my experience with two 2903s here in this forum when time has come. My question to the Admin and my friends here is just why not add another category like nether_region (only visible for registred users) for out of 55-61 area Letter cars? HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL! Dieter Edited by di_ch_NY56 2016-12-31 10:33 AM | ||
ruchaven |
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Expert Posts: 1231 Location: York County, PA | Thank you, Dieter. I was trying to imply that same suggestion from my first post on this subject. | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13042 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | I never had any problems with any car owners in particular - I meet with Corvette owners as well as extremely rare europeean car owners. I know many 300F owners personally and they're down to the bone car guys of the best kind. Talk with farmers in a farmers language and kings in a kings language and you'll be navigating easily through life. Keep in mind that some car owners that only bought a very expensive car might be suspicious and careful to share too much with people they don't know. I know that it takes time and effort to get some guys to share the information about their cars since I run a Chrysler '60 register in Sweden. | ||
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