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Elite Veteran
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Location: somerville mass | but why non fl????? this is a fl site... you can start a 62 to 70 non fl 300 site on your own
if you want.... vi dont think members would have interest in this. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | '62-'70 300 owners can already post in the nether region. But I don't see any activity there. I don't think that adding a section is going to make much difference. I believe that most of these cars hang out in the ForCbodiesOnly forum, as well as the 300 club. Take a look over there and you will see a lot of 300 owners. Why? Because they can get useful info from other C-body owners that have similar cars. That is the point. Putting them here is pointless unless we want to accept all '62-'70 C bodies. We can also make a section in the nether region for that purpose, but why would they move from where they are?
If the heads of the 300 club were wanting to get a forum section for their own club use, then I can see it being a potentially useful way of gathering everyone in their club in one place outside of their current listserve format, but I don't see them asking us for this. Am I wrong? Are they asking? Who is in charge over there? |
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Location: Northen Virginia | The forums are very important, even that Dave itself told me last July in Carlisle that he don't visit the forums often.
I had a professor during my Engineering college years that told me "when you face a problem always twist it, turn it and look from the other side, always".... So how about the 300 club to add a link for "non-300" car? they would do that?
I had the same feeling that DOC every time I spoke to a 300 car owner, specially when I tell them that my car is a sedan...specially with the low low low category Newport...
Let be honest guys, the fact that darn Chrysler rarely shared parts with all the divisions like GM did, make us all Mopar fans fish from a different barrel and that is probably why we have this forums with a "out of topics" sections.
In the other hand I don't really care if they post a section for Chevy ford or 300 cars, I'm just not going there, like many others sections on this website I don't care for...
Edited by hemidenis 2017-01-02 9:22 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 132
| Im with Mike on this. 90% of the other forums i view have an area where general brand questions are welcomed. try being a collector of Forward look and late 70's dodge trucks believe me with out cross over knowledge id be SCR#W#D
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Location: Connecticut | RJ72cuda - 2017-01-02 9:44 AM Im with Mike on this. 90% of the other forums i view have an area where general brand questions are welcomed. try being a collector of Forward look and late 70's dodge trucks believe me with out cross over knowledge id be SCR#W#D This site has a Neither Region where non-FL cars can be discussed. Also there is a Miscellaneous For Sale forum if you have something other than FL cars or parts for sale. Other than that, the mission of this site has always been 55-61 Mopars. It's an excellent resource for those unique cars. It should not be watered down with discussions of anything else. If you are a fan of all years of Desotos, go to the Desoto club website. If you follow Oldsmobile, there are several websites and forums devoted to those cars. If either Chrysler 300 club wants to start up a forum, then it's relatively easy. But doing it here is not a good idea. Ron |
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| Hemi --
Au contraire, after the demise of the "divisional" engines in the '58-'59 model years, Chrysler divisions did a lot of sharing of parts within the corporation. For example, the B-Series mills were all made by Dodge and, in fact, the big 383's of both the '59 Dodge (the D-500) and DeSoto came from Dodge. In the 1960 model year, Plymouth's biggest engine was to be the ram-inducted 361, but Dodge started dropping the 383s in their Dart, so Plymouth cried "foul" and they, too got a ram 383. Interestingly, the '59 Dodge hi-po 383 was advertised at 345 HP, while the DeSoto was given 350 but, except for external paint, they were identical. The same was true with the ram 361s in 1960: Dart said theirs had 320 horses but Plymouth's was supposed to have only 310. In 1961, all the Dodge and Plymouth 413s came from Chrysler, especially since no 413-equipped Dodge or Plymouth came as such off the assembly line ("dealer-installed" options for NASCAR and NHRA). However, you might find it of interest that those '60-'61 ram 383 CID engines were really putting out closer to 350-360 HP, but the Chrysler brass didn't like the idea of Dodge, and particularly lowly Plymouth, having that much power.
In contrast, the only GM parts my fuel-injected '65 Corvette shares with most other GM products (even at that late date) are some of the electrical components and the Delco battery (in name only - the capacity is not the same). As for other GM cars, about all they shared with each other was the advertising slogan, "Body by Fisher." Ford was even farther behind. Chrysler really moved ahead of the other manufacturers in standardization of parts in the late '50s and early '60s.
Joe Godec
'57 Chrysler 300C, '60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Fuelie Vette, '65 Sport Fury (426/4-speed) |
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Location: Parts Unknown | For 1959, GM body shells were common to ALL lines from Chevy to Cadillac.
If one were so inclined, a 59 Caddy of any given body style could be stripped
of nose clip and outer body steetmetal, replacing it with Buick metal and you'd
have a Buick ! Some were lengthened, such as the Electra 225, so a direct swap
with a lesser Buick or Chevy might require some creative bridge work, but for'
same style bodies, it was a common body shell under the skin. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | If either Chrysler 300 club wants to start up a forum, then it's relatively easy. But doing it here is not a good idea.
someone said a long while back , maybe if they weren't so stuffy , they'd already have their own forum ------------------------------------------------------later |
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Posts: 1287
| Doc --
And the sheetmetal on Lancer Mike's '58 DeSoto and my '57 300C are virtually identical.
Joe |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | I wish there was more stuff from a 58 chevy that would swap into my 58 buick, it would make it a lot cheaper lol
What your saying Doc does ring true a bit with olds and Pontiac, but under the skin stuff, even though they kind of look the same.
All the driveline and suspension for my buick isn't interchangeable with anything without massive work
Anyway, back to Mopar 
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Location: Parts Unknown | Joe,
I think this is why the 300 guys were so quick to suggest my 57 NY'er and
58 DeSoto were excellent parts donors for a potential 300 project. A few
unique parts, but the bulk of chassis and body were interchangeable.
Mick,
GM did not streamline their division body shells until 59. Prior to that,
Chevy and Pontiac shared some stuff, as did Olds and Buick. Buick shared
some stuff with Caddy too. It would be a decade more before GM brought
their drivetrains under a corporate umbrella. By then , the cars were so boring,
... who the hell cares ? !!!  
If you think you hate your life about 58 Buick parts, keep reminding yourself
that the Super-Roadmaster-Limited series cars were FOUR inches wider and
MUCH longer, resulting in special parts that are REALLY rare. The Special and
Century series cars represented 95% of Buick production. |
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Regular
Posts: 65
| I dont post here often but really enjoy the site. I ran across a 300 G convertible at an auction and drug it home. I thought it was a neat car and had not been around one or anyone with one before. I have a 69 Z28 that I did a rotisserie restoration on and a 67 GTX. I have alot of knowledge on 69 camaros after the restoration and really enjoy the friends I have met along the way. So I am on a couple camaro forums and moparts.com. I used to be on the 300 list but hated using it. I ran into some nice guys who did some work for me and had some parts I needed but after some of the other members got to bashing my occupation I never went back. Sad part was they were clueless about what they were talking about. The site seemed very difficult for me to post on and no pictures. I dont know if the problems were my laptop or what but very annoying. |
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Veteran
Posts: 132
| i see alot of people mention "start your own" which is plausible. If i remember that is what shut down the Scatpack message board back in the early 2000s I and i assume Mike Mccandles think similarly that people here are knowledgeable and have something to benifit someone with an early 300 or something of the sorts.
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Expert
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Location: Northen Virginia | When my friend was restoring a 1966 Corvette In Argentina, he used most of the matching parts from 70 Chevy Nova and found a right vent window gear donor from a 1958 Cadillac and happens to be exactly the same. All this tell me that that GM share and keep parts over the years in the entire line, way more than Chrysler. Now tell me what part of a 61 Valiant fit a 300G? what they can share in a forum?
Edited by hemidenis 2017-01-04 10:06 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | I don't know about a 300G, but a '61 Lancer/Valiant has the same door handles & window cranks as a '56 Plymouth. That was nice to find out since I have one of each of them. |
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Posts: 1886
| Who knew my thread would be so popular :). |
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Posts: 2289
Location: Eastern Iowa | And to think my offering a few small parts for sale ignited it all.
Sad. |
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Expert
Posts: 1287
| Denis --
Really? All that stuff in Argentina, no less! I'd love to see that Corvette, especially since I've been to Argentina. No doubt it's a NCRS "Top Flight Award" car, perfect in every way.
As I said, the complete body shell of my '57 300C and Lancer Mike's '58 DeSoto are virtually identical. His B-Series engine and the B-Series engine on my '60 Fury were both made by Dodge. These were major components and were used by the various divisions of Chrysler not only each model year but through the years. By 1970, those '70 Nova parts had become obsolete hand-me-downs from the bigger brothers at Chevrolet. My '65 Vette may have the same basic 327 block (and block only) as other Chevrolets in the '65 model year, as well as the Muncie 4-speed of all GMs, but not much more went from one GM division to another in 1965 (aside from 58 Cadillac vent window gear).
Of course, all manufacturers tried to standardize parts as much as possible as it's a simple exercise in production efficiency and economy, but I think Chrysler did a better job than the rest.
Joe |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | But one major thing GM did right, and Mopar didn't, is keeping the bellhousing pattern constant. For GM, they are all the same. And the crank/starter issues that Chrysler created in '61-'62 makes it difficult even for me to figure out sometimes. What does my '61 slant six require since it has a 904 aluminum trans?? I remember that this was a big factor for all the hotrod kids because you could purchase ANY GM product and easily swap a big block or any other motor into it that you wanted. With Chrysler, you had to do a lot more work, spend more money, and you might get it wrong. Keeping it simple has a big impact on getting a larger percentage of the population to buy into your brand. |
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| Powerflite --
I think a lot of that had to do with the great variances in torque in the Chrysler engines from the /-6 to 440, to say nothing about the 426 Hemi. All GMs used the Borg-Warner 4-speed (except the "Rock Crusher" allocated to their special Hi-Po engines like the Corvette L-88), but the B-W was not considered adequate for the big MoPar mills. For example, the 375 horse 392 in my C has a torque rating of 430 foot pounds and while the '57 fuel-injected Corvette 283 did put out 283 HP, it had only 300 ft. lbs. of torque. My '60 SonoRamic has 460 ft. lbs., but even the '62 409/409s had only 409 (and a great advertising gimmick). As to '65s, my 327 CID/375 horsepower fuelie has only 350 ft. lbs. while my '65 Sport Fury 365 HP/426-S twists about 470. Even the "mighty" 360/389 of that year's Goat had only 424 ft. lbs. Of course, that's one of the reasons the MoPars jumped so well off the line. Back in 1962, my old '60 SonoRamic could surprise even a 409 at a Stop-Light Grand Prix and later that '65 426-S did the same to a couple of Goats, but of course in a longer run they'd easily outwind my cars.
Joe
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Location: York County, PA | Joe, I have been following your post since you owned a '60 Plymouth. What can I possibly do to this project of mine to improve its torque, '60 Dodge Phoenix? What you stated above about your '60 SonoRamic is what Harry said about his original car - that he could take on any Chevy 350 with his 318 engine. So is it all in the engine, all in the transmission, or a little bit of both? What do I have to do to make this 318 respectable? |
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Location: York County, PA | This is another crossover question like the other questions posted above. What can I borrow from Plymouth, Chrysler, etc. to make the Phoenix run? |
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Posts: 2002
Location: Branson, MO | ruchaven asks: What do I have to do to make this 318 respectable?
Install a 340 stock cam with roller chain, a 650 cfm 4 barrel carb, dual exhausts, and a 3.23:1 rear gear or higher. My pure stock '71 'cuda 340 convertible with Polyglas GT tires turned 14.2 at 99mph with 3.55:1 gears (sure-grip). But my CR was 10:1 or 10.5:1 so the 318 will not be quite the same with lower compression but will be respectable. Gas is not as good today as it was back then either so your lower CR might be to your advantage. The main thing about the 340 cam is the max torque comes in at above 3000 rpm which gives excellent off the line giddy-up without burning the tires off. This is a huge advantage over other engines that have their max torque at around 1800 rpm and just sit there bawling the tires off and going nowhere. Now slicks are a different story but you're not driving around on racing tires anyway. Oh, and electronic ignition is a plus.
Edited by Viper Guy 2017-01-05 4:45 PM
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Location: Northen Virginia | Joe
Chrysler maybe the worst regarding to keep parts the same. Just look at the torqueflite and all the changes from 56 to 61. Honestly i don't know much about dodges and Plymouth but i can tell you about Imperial 57-59 cars that are virtually identical... Identical my ass, 57-58 has different bumpers so the whole frames are not interchangeable, the dashes are virtually identical but the electrical systems are completely different, so the switches and so forth, even that they looks the same and the functions are the same... Or ask to Don who tried to interchange 57-58 Imperial parts.
The 57 -58 sedan are the same basic body, but the 59 is a completely different for the b pillar back, I truly didn't believe it looking at the parts manuals and i found that the hard way that they are completely different, the doors inner frame are not the same, or the pillars the lower quarters and parts of the trunk floor. Now why in the hell mother Mopar will make these huge changes for the final year of this particular body style? They even change the rear wheel opening shape, wheel well and all!!
I'm maybe comparing Imperials with dodge and Plymouth but when Imperials of the exact same body style don't match I think I proved my point. Have you seen for example the points and condensers difference and huge parts numbers data? Why change all that, it is no reason for.
My friend sold his Corvette for almost 100k and purchased 2 apt in Miami which I think was the greatest investment I ever see coming out of money pits cars... |
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Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | Going back to the original thread. I keep sticking with the idea that the main reason why the 300 crowd is staying away for the rest is the fact they cars are virtually different to the rest.. |
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Location: York County, PA | Thank you, Viper Guy. This is almost exactly where I am headed with my 1975 Dodge step side truck with a current stock 360 engine, heavy duty crank, double timing chain, deep well oil pan with baffles. 650 cfm four barrel from 71 cuda, Have 3:55 sure grip, H style custom exhaust, Hooker style headers. Looking to put in 340 cam,W2 heads, Pertronix distributor kit. Got good low end torque. Looking forward to working on it again after the Phoenix is on the road, I always claimed the truck as my ride. I always told Harry if we had both vehicles running they would be close performance wise but I would beat him on the track because less weight. I thought about having the heads that are on it right now shaved to up the CR but with this gas (and we can get non ethanol locally) I don't know if its worth it. Also, with no weight in the back, I think I can close to reaching my performance sweet spot for a nice ride. Can't overdue or become too hard to handle on the highway.
I am thinking my engine/transmission came out of an RV. Any ideas on upgrading the transmission? |
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Expert
Posts: 1287
| Denis --
All I can say is that the '57 300C has basically the same body shell as the '58 300F and the '57 and '58 DeSotos. This was particularly obvious to me when I parked mine alongside Lancer Mike's '58 DeSoto. Of course, there are differences to accomodate particular model and the annual styling changes, but the tooling for each sheet metal component bore close resemblance to one another. Furthermore, each type of Chrysler engine after 1958, from 170 CID /-6 to 440 CID V-8, was basically identical and shared components, be it in Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler, or Imperial. To be sure, modifications periodically occured, such as adding addtional bolts to the early B-Series valve covers to reduce warpage and leaks, but these modifications went across the board for all divisions since they were centrally produced by Chrysler, Dodge, or Plymouth engine plants, each devoted to a specific engine available to as many of the corporate lines as possible. In this vein, I challenge you to present any similarities between the engines of any GM marque with those of any other -- at least during the time frame of The Forward Look.
BTW, if your friend got a hundred grand for a '66 Vette, in the United States, he did well indeed. He has my sincere congratulations.
Ruchaven --
Viper's right on with his suggestions and, in fact, it doesn't look like you need any help from me. I sure wouldn't want to tangle with either one of you guys in my absolutely stock behemoths. Good work, both of you.
Joe |
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Location: York County, PA | Did you know there were a lot of 340 engine parts in that 360 RV engine? I was pleasantly surprised when I chased the numbers. |
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Regular
Posts: 61
| Doc desoto. You are living in the past by carrying this baggage with you for that last few decades, is it getting heavy yet? Forgive your Mopar brothers and let it die, be the better man and welcome other Mopar brothers as friends and equals, you may be surprised at what happens. I read some of the other BS you type on here and am wondering if you invite this treatment to yourself?? You were wronged way back, get over it. Stop bringing this up, it will help ALL involved.
Of course we never met and I can only guess that by all of your friends on here that you are a good guy. Give a your neighbors a chance, learn and grow!
Edited by sonaramic300 2017-01-21 3:54 PM
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Opening forum to 300 club, non 55-61 years
