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Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.
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FourFans
Posted 2016-12-10 11:13 PM (#528391)
Subject: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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So, my recent acquisition, original paint and rb383 windsor has bit of a cardiovascular problem.

I did the usual old mopar resuscitation... fuel pump, new fluids, start from a gas can, etc. The old Carter did amazing. It idles and fired up pretty easy with no real work. It ran great! However, it didnt register much oil pressure so i shut down within a few minutes.

I pulled a valve cover and it is one of the dirtiest engines i have seen. Lots of black grit everywhere and a weird grey sludge on the tops of the heads.

My plan is to pull the pan, clean the screen, hose out what i can without fully scattering the engine and seeing how it runs. I will use a standalone pressure gauge and a drill to check oil pressure before i run it again.

Any suggestions? I dont really want to run diesel or anything crazy... oil galleries and bearings only have so much clearance.

I am also going to run rotella 15-40 cl-4 in it... and a bunch of oil changes and new filters until it cleans up.

Edited by FourFans 2016-12-10 11:18 PM
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wizard
Posted 2016-12-11 3:21 AM (#528396 - in reply to #528391)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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I've done this work on a 56 Chrysler. I started to pull one valve cover and covered the rest of the engine with old towels.
Removed the sludge with good spatulas and washed the last off with white spirit. Thereafter soaked up as much as possible with lintfree cloths and finally a carefull last cleaning with compressed air. I then applied a lot of new motor oil over all moving parts in the valve train.

Same proceedure for the other side.

In this case, the gallery under the manifold was not full of sludge, so I pulled the pan and worked with old toothbrushes and White spirit.

After this proceedure you need to do some extra oil changes for to wash out the last of the old sludge.

Don't do the diesel cowboy trick - we did that on cars we didn't really care for.........
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-12-11 5:11 PM (#528432 - in reply to #528396)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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Using diesel is an old trick that no longer works. Diesel #1 worked great as a solvent to clean up greasy old motor parts, but diesel #2 doesn't work worth a darn. There is a big difference between the two. So even if it wouldn't hurt the motor, I don't think it would benefit you much anymore because of the new formulation.
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FourFans
Posted 2016-12-11 7:10 PM (#528441 - in reply to #528432)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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Powerflite - 2016-12-11 3:11 PM

Using diesel is an old trick that no longer works. Diesel #1 worked great as a solvent to clean up greasy old motor parts, but diesel #2 doesn't work worth a darn. There is a big difference between the two. So even if it wouldn't hurt the motor, I don't think it would benefit you much anymore because of the new formulation.


Good thoughts. #1 is a lot lighter. I still am not going to do the diesel thing.

Worst case I am going to pull it and rebuild it if the 383 RB pistons have the clearance. I am only looking for a driving car here, not a show winner. If the cylinders are too worn, I will likely redo a 440 or 400 I have laying around. The 400 would be pretty healthy with the 383 RB crank.
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2016-12-12 5:29 AM (#528457 - in reply to #528391)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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ATF works nicely as a cleaning oil, and also still provide good lubrication on parts being a 30-weight oil.
I've poured a quart or 2 ATF in my daily driven 318 once in a while.

But a fully gummed or sludged up engine will have a very hard time cleaning itself by regular operation.
Manual intervention is usually required.
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plymouth
Posted 2016-12-12 8:21 AM (#528470 - in reply to #528457)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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This is what I did to de-sludge my exes slant six. First drain the oil. Pour a few gallons of mineral spirits into the crankcase and use carb cleaner to clean everything under the valve cover. Let the mineral spirits sit overnight and drain. Fill with cheap oil and good filter and drive easily for about 30 minutes. Drain oil and change filter. This time substitute a couple of quarts of oil with Marvel Mystery Oil. I ran this for a few days and changed it. This will remove lots of sludge. I would also add a high volume oil pump.

Edited by plymouth 2016-12-12 8:23 AM
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1960fury
Posted 2016-12-12 8:42 AM (#528471 - in reply to #528391)
Subject: RE: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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FourFans - 2016-12-10 11:13 PM

So, my recent acquisition, original paint and rb383 windsor has bit of a cardiovascular problem.

I did the usual old mopar resuscitation... fuel pump, new fluids, start from a gas can, etc. The old Carter did amazing. It idles and fired up pretty easy with no real work. It ran great! However, it didnt register much oil pressure so i shut down within a few minutes.

I pulled a valve cover and it is one of the dirtiest engines i have seen. Lots of black grit everywhere and a weird grey sludge on the tops of the heads.

My plan is to pull the pan, clean the screen, hose out what i can without fully scattering the engine and seeing how it runs. I will use a standalone pressure gauge and a drill to check oil pressure before i run it again.

Any suggestions? I dont really want to run diesel or anything crazy... oil galleries and bearings only have so much clearance.

I am also going to run rotella 15-40 cl-4 in it... and a bunch of oil changes and new filters until it cleans up.


sounds like my 383 (low deck). i thought this engine is dead, an inch of sludge in the oil pan, rockers covered with a thick layer of carbon. cleaned the oil pan and switched to synthetic oil and a high volume oil pump and just drove it expecting it to die every second.... that was 1988, that engine still runs like new today after 28 years of almost daily driving and with 330k miles.
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Mopar1
Posted 2016-12-12 10:22 AM (#528480 - in reply to #528471)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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One possible drawback to ATF or similar strategy is if a large blob of sludge breaks lose & clogs the oil pump intake screen....
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2016-12-13 2:45 PM (#528569 - in reply to #528391)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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The possible blob could indeed be 'another' nail in the engine's coffin when the pickup is more likely already full of nylon teeth remains from the timing gear.
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1960fury
Posted 2016-12-13 3:20 PM (#528576 - in reply to #528569)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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BigBlockMopar - 2016-12-13 2:45 PM

The possible blob could indeed be 'another' nail in the engine's coffin when the pickup is more likely already full of nylon teeth remains from the timing gear.


ps (528471) timing sprockets/chain, of course i changed that too (along with almost everything in search for more power, but the engine has never been rebuild, heads never been removed).
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sidesho_bob1961
Posted 2016-12-14 10:13 AM (#528652 - in reply to #528391)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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I put a can of Seafoam into a car's crankcase due to the fact oil wasn't getting up to the valvetrain adequately. Just followed the instructions on the can, only I used the whole can. The more the car runs the better the internal oiling system is getting. This spring I'll put a couple hundred more miles on it with the Seafoam in and check it again......
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FourFans
Posted 2016-12-14 2:25 PM (#528685 - in reply to #528569)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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BigBlockMopar - 2016-12-13 12:45 PM

The possible blob could indeed be 'another' nail in the engine's coffin when the pickup is more likely already full of nylon teeth remains from the timing gear.


When did they start and stop using nylon gears? I havent run into that on my later engines... this is the first 2bbl rb ive owned.

I couldnt find anything on it but this at hemmings. It says post 65.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hemmings.com/magazine/hcc/2009/07/1...

Edited by FourFans 2016-12-14 2:32 PM
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Richbo
Posted 2016-12-22 3:51 AM (#529477 - in reply to #528391)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.


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The grey sludge may indicate coolant in the oil - pulling the heads may be in your future !!!
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1960fury
Posted 2016-12-22 8:13 AM (#529490 - in reply to #529477)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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Richbo - 2016-12-22 3:51 AM

The grey sludge may indicate coolant in the oil - pulling the heads may be in your future !!!


very, very unlikely with a mopar bb.
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local2Ed
Posted 2016-12-30 5:12 PM (#530067 - in reply to #529477)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.


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Richbo - 2016-12-22 3:51 AM

The grey sludge may indicate coolant in the oil - pulling the heads may be in your future !!!


Almost every engine I've opened that had not been run in years had the grey sludge in the oil pan.
I just attributed it to the oil separation from years of sitting.
Off hand I don't recall if the grey sludge was through out the engine though.
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58coupe
Posted 2016-12-31 10:19 AM (#530106 - in reply to #528391)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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The sludge is caused by water mixed with the oil over time. All engines get water in the oil as a byproduct of combustion and a varying amounts of blowby. That is why you should change your oil on a regular basis.
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FourFans
Posted 2016-12-31 12:21 PM (#530120 - in reply to #530106)
Subject: Re: Sludge. 60 chrysler survivor.



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58coupe - 2016-12-31 8:19 AM

The sludge is caused by water mixed with the oil over time. All engines get water in the oil as a byproduct of combustion and a varying amounts of blowby. That is why you should change your oil on a regular basis.


From what I see... Also caused by not being taken up to operating temp or by having a low temp/inop thermostat with in conjunction with our non PCV vacuum systems. When the engine shuts down, any moisture in the engine will condense on the inside. If the engine isn't heated up enough to boil off this moisture, it will collect in the oil. Less of a problem in dry environments, but I have still seen it in Colorado.

I had a friend who only drove his LA mopar pickup about 1-2 miles for about a year. During winter his oil px went to zero on startup. He had about 3 qts of ice frozen around the pickup screen.

I don't know 100% what caused my sludge. I think it is intermittent maintenance over the years, non detergent oil for most of its life, and not being run enough to warm up. If they had changed the oil every year, rather than every 3000mi, things might be different. The car only got 13000 miles in the past 20 years and may have oil in it from the Clinton administration.
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