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Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-14 11:27 PM (#526267)
Subject: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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I made this comment in my D500 "It's Aliivve(ish)" post: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=63684&...

"After I install a missing (and very dangerously missing) clip on the choke connector rod (connects the choke to the fast idle cam), I will be firing the D500 up again today to see how the oil burning situation has improved (or not). I guess I should be lining up at least valve stem seals in case they are old and brittle after a mere 60 years."

Okay so I dug out the carb rebuild kit that I had bought but didn't use and installed a tiny hairpin spring clip to (maybe) hold the top of the choke connector rod to the choke plate "axel". Very sketchy/flaky. Does NOT give me confidence. Twice while trying to get the engine going on Friday, the choke connector rod had fallen off and jambed the throttle WIDE OPEN. That was scary as hell for the 1.5 seconds it took me to open the drivers door and jump in and turn the ignition off. I've added the spring clip but I am not convinced that it is going to hold. For example, where did the one go that must have been on there when I got the carb back from the rebuilder/restorer?

Help me with redesigning that rod so both the upper and lower connections are more failure resistant. I am thinking larger diameter rod with drilled ends for a clevis-type pin (one leg through the hole). I am also thinking some kind of washer/clip to help with the pin situation.

Here are two diagrams that illustrate the point(s) of my concern:


Edited by 56D500boy 2016-11-14 11:39 PM




(CarterWCFBPhoto_Annotated.jpg)



(CarterWCFBChokeToFastIdleConnection_Annotated.jpg)



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Attachments CarterWCFBPhoto_Annotated.jpg (178KB - 244 downloads)
Attachments CarterWCFBChokeToFastIdleConnection_Annotated.jpg (100KB - 175 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-15 10:05 AM (#526301 - in reply to #526267)
Subject: RE: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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I guess I was wrong on my terminology of "clevis pin".

I find this is a clevis pin:



What I was thinking of was something like this with one straight leg that goes through a hole (apparently called a "hair pin cotter" pin):



As opposed to these hair pin clips (which want groves rather than a hole):

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57chizler
Posted 2016-11-15 4:44 PM (#526340 - in reply to #526267)
Subject: RE: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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IIRC, the top of the rod has no retainer; the rod end is formed with a "key" that fits into the visible slot in the hole in the lever, the rod is inserted with the key aligned with the slot and then the rod is turned 90° so the key is no longer aligned with the slot.

The hole in the lower end of the rod accepts a small "hitch pin clip".



(hair-pin-clip.jpg)



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Attachments hair-pin-clip.jpg (3KB - 181 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-15 4:55 PM (#526342 - in reply to #526340)
Subject: RE: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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57chizler - 2016-11-15 4:44 PM IIRC, the top of the rod has no retainer; the rod end is formed with a "key" that fits into the visible slot in the hole in the lever, the rod is inserted with the key aligned with the slot and then the rod is turned 90° so the key is no longer aligned with the slot.


That is a good theory. I can turn the cloke plate to align the "key hole" so the "key" end of the rod goes through the "key hole", HOWEVER, the slightest real or imagined tweak to the throttle and the end of the rod falls out of the key hole. Too dangerous to drive like that. I put a hair pin clip on yesterday but still, I don't like it. I want something less likely to fall off like the bottom end of the rod has.

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57chizler
Posted 2016-11-16 4:29 PM (#526411 - in reply to #526342)
Subject: RE: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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If the rod falls off when the key hole isn't aligned with the slot, the "key" part of the rod is worn away or the hole is way oversized. When the parts are correct the original setup is foolproof.

You might try a linkage clip pictured below, they come in several different sizes and left and right hand configuration.



(Linkage Clips.jpg)



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Attachments Linkage Clips.jpg (22KB - 181 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-16 4:49 PM (#526414 - in reply to #526411)
Subject: RE: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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57chizler - 2016-11-16 4:29 PM

If the rod falls off when the key hole isn't aligned with the slot, the "key" part of the rod is worn away or the hole is way oversized. When the parts are correct the original setup is foolproof.
You might try a linkage clip pictured below, they come in several different sizes and left and right hand configuration.


Thanks. I have no idea why the rod is falling out. Perhaps as you say. I've only owned the car since Sept 15th and I had the carb restored in late September after the engine failed to start. . I quizzed the carb restorer and he thought that *maybe* a hairpin clip had fallen off. (It was just a phone conversation so I'm not sure if he understood what I was talking about)

I had a quick look at my Audi parts supplier for the clips that you suggest because, to me, that is the clip that I think should be there, to eliminate any issues with the "key"/"keyhole" approach taken by CARTER back in the day. Any idea where I might find said clips?

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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-20 11:19 PM (#526739 - in reply to #526414)
Subject: RE: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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I'm still interested in buying a clip like one of these if somebody knows where to find them.

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matte
Posted 2016-11-21 2:33 AM (#526741 - in reply to #526739)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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Most automotive shops


http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-pcs-Mopar-Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth-carbur...

http://www.rockauto.com/en/tools/fuel/air,carburetor,throttle+l...


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matte
Posted 2016-11-21 2:43 AM (#526743 - in reply to #526267)
Subject: RE: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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I tried taking some photos of my GMH vehicle with that setup but it was too dark. If you want better photos I'll see what I can do. This is on the throttle linkage and not directly to the carb...





(IMG_6091.JPG)



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Attachments IMG_6091.JPG (100KB - 165 downloads)
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60 dart
Posted 2016-11-21 4:17 AM (#526745 - in reply to #526267)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Dodge+%281960%2C60%2C%2760...
3A12%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A1205&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xthrottle+linkage+clip.TRS0&_nkw
RC0.A0.H0.Xthrottle+linkage+clip.TRS0&_nkw=throttle+linkage+clip&_sacat=0
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-21 8:48 AM (#526751 - in reply to #526745)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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Thanks for the links (pun not intended) guys. I'm on it.

Dave F
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-21 2:50 PM (#526771 - in reply to #526751)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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56D500boy - 2016-11-21 8:48 AM Thanks for the links (pun not intended) guys. I'm on it.
Dave F


I was at my local NOS Chryco parts source (100,000 inventoried parts) this AM to buy a new 2084284 stop light switch and he gave me a few clips to try.

Dave F.
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RUSTORICHES
Posted 2017-01-27 1:36 AM (#532444 - in reply to #526267)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)


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Did I hear you say "Stop Light Switch" new just a word if you're using the original hydraulic type " There isn't another original type Sorry" the new type brake fluid is not suited for this system and the switch will pressure up and not release this leaves the brake lights on of coarse which will cause electrical wires to overheat and ultimately start a fire there's a member here on the forum with a 61 Chrysler that had this experience and it melted the tail lights out of his car if I remember correctly.This why most change this switch up to an electric one hopefully this is what you purchased if not you'll have the brake system pressure bled and the old style fluid put in.
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samdjr74
Posted 2017-01-27 10:34 AM (#532458 - in reply to #526267)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)


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I was thinking about making a change to this link as well. I was going to get some heim clevis joints and threaded rod used in model airplanes and attache them with nyloc bolts. This way the link should stay put but still work as designed.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-01-27 11:07 AM (#532464 - in reply to #532444)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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RUSTORICHES - 2017-01-27 1:36 AM Did I hear you say "Stop Light Switch" new just a word if you're using the original hydraulic type " There isn't another original type Sorry" the new type brake fluid is not suited for this system and the switch will pressure up and not release this leaves the brake lights on of coarse which will cause electrical wires to overheat and ultimately start a fire.


The switch was/is a NOS switch and the new brake fluid for the new master cylinder and wheel cylinders is the non-silicone DOT approved variety. I hope that works out. I am running United Pacific 1157 two-pin 36934 red LED taillights so the even if the stop light stayed on, the heat involved wouldn't be very much.

http://www.uapac.com/antique/2-high-power-led-1157-bulb.html (The light from these is amazingly bright)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-01-28 9:38 PM (#532556 - in reply to #532458)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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samdjr74 - 2017-01-27 10:34 AM I was thinking about making a change to this link as well. I was going to get some heim clevis joints and threaded rod used in model airplanes and attache them with nyloc bolts. This way the link should stay put but still work as designed.


Do they even make things that small? There is radio-controlled aircraft shop 10 minutes away that I could check on Monday.

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samdjr74
Posted 2017-01-30 12:30 PM (#532689 - in reply to #532556)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)


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56D500boy - 2017-01-28 9:38 PM
samdjr74 - 2017-01-27 10:34 AM I was thinking about making a change to this link as well. I was going to get some heim clevis joints and threaded rod used in model airplanes and attache them with nyloc bolts. This way the link should stay put but still work as designed.
Do they even make things that small? There is radio-controlled aircraft shop 10 minutes away that I could check on Monday. :)

 

Yes, model airplanes and radio control cars use them. I think with the cars it would be slightly bigger but stronger than for a plane

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56D500boy
Posted 2017-03-14 11:38 AM (#535931 - in reply to #532689)
Subject: Re: Redesigning the Carter WCFB choke connector rod connection(s)



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samdjr74 - 2017-01-30 12:30 PM

56D500boy - 2017-01-28 9:38 PM
samdjr74 - 2017-01-27 10:34 AM I was thinking about making a change to this link as well. I was going to get some heim clevis joints and threaded rod used in model airplanes and attache them with nyloc bolts. This way the link should stay put but still work as designed.
Do they even make things that small? There is radio-controlled aircraft shop 10 minutes away that I could check on Monday. :)

 

Yes, model airplanes and radio control cars use them. I think with the cars it would be slightly bigger but stronger than for a plane



I finally visited the radio-controlled shop a week ago Tues. and indeed they had a couple of heim-jointed threaded rods that looked like they would work.

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